86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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Transwing09
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86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:07 am



Hello all! new to the forum and to the world of motorcycles. today i purchased a GL1200 with 80K on the clockas a project and the first thing on my list mechanical wise is to figure out burning issue. upon startup it smokes a pretty good bit and constantly when running though isnt too noticeable. i assume its oil because of its blue color. bike also idles rough (800-925ish). where should i start to look here? i do believe the left side ( sitting on it) is leaking oil slowly but not sure if thats just a valcover gasket or more. plan to get closer look tomorrow.



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redial
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby redial » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:37 am

Welcome, from the Deep Deep South, and I wish you well in your new endeavours.

The very first thing to do, especially seeing it is a project GW, is to change all of the fluids - even emptying the fuel tank and checking for crud, rust, and lurking spiders if it hasnt been used for a while. Things like battery terminals should be taken off and cleaned and returned, and then coat in some grease to slow down the green buildup. Make sure the battery is fully charged, and while you are fiddling with the electrics, check all the earth connections for corrosion. Check all the fuses to make sure they are in good order.

As for running a bit rough, it could be just crud instead of fuel, and the blue smoke could be because it has been sitting for a while on the side stand with the oil taking the easy path downhill.
Len in Kapunda

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Transwing09
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:42 am

luckily shes almost out of fuel. took a peek inside the tank and she looks ok a little dirty but in my opinion mostly clean. if i can get pictures i will. i was thinking aboutrunning a little seafroam to maybe help clean out its fuel system, is that a good idea? i plan on doing a oil change and does the trans on this bike share the engine oil or how does that work?

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:17 am

If it's smoking mostly out the left side, and goes away after a while, it's usually an indication of leaky valve guide seals, which is pretty much a given in a bike of that age. When the bike is sitting on the side stand, oil gradually seeps through the valve guide seals into the head, where it is sucked into the engine and burned off when the bike is started. If it's not a huge amount of oil, then you can just live with it and top it off from time to time - or park on the center stand when the bike is going to be sitting for more than a few hours.

If the smoke is out of both sides, or doesn't go away after a while, it can indicate other things, like bad piston rings, head gasket issues, or valve seals that are really gone.

Transwing09
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:21 am

she smokes out of both sides while doing this. though maybe a bit more left than right? and since ive had it here and looked at it at the PO's house its only ran on its center stand. oil is leaking slowly from left valve cover as well

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby urbanmadness » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:35 pm

Hey everyone, you guys forgot the goldwing Montra..... TIMING BELTS!!!!!!! Change them now, before you do anything else on the bike, before you even ride it!!!!

As for the oil burning issue... It could be a number of things.... Fuel is old, there is no telling what the PO used for a fuel stabilizer. If he used AFT or Marvel Mystery oil, etc. Fill it up with some fresh gas, dose it with some seafoam and just ride it. It really takes a while to get the oil out of them. Just watch your oil consumption. and as you already mentioned, change the valve cover gaskets. I'd also change the fuel filter. Fuel systems in these bikes get expensive quick.

Pull the stator cover and get rid of the connector. Solder and heat shrink the wires together instead. That plugs go bad, and can and will take out the stator (you have to pull the engine to change the stator, not a fun job)

Your bike is fuel injected, no? If riding it, with the sea foam doesn't smooth it out in a tank or two, then it's time to look at all the vacuum lines (I'd do it anyway) and start replacing them. Remember this bike aint no spring chicken... and all those rubber hoses are old.

look at the dates on the tires, replace if older then 5 or 6 years old, replace them... Also, check the valve stems (they rot). Change the clutch, and brake fluids and rear diff. Lube the rear splines. You do these things, and these bikes will last forever.

And yes, the engine and trans share oil. These bikes seem to like Rotella.

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:11 pm

urbanmadness wrote:Hey everyone, you guys forgot the goldwing Montra..... TIMING BELTS!!!!!!! Change them now, before you do anything else on the bike, before you even ride it!!!!

As for the oil burning issue... It could be a number of things.... Fuel is old, there is no telling what the PO used for a fuel stabilizer. If he used AFT or Marvel Mystery oil, etc. Fill it up with some fresh gas, dose it with some seafoam and just ride it. It really takes a while to get the oil out of them. Just watch your oil consumption. and as you already mentioned, change the valve cover gaskets. I'd also change the fuel filter. Fuel systems in these bikes get expensive quick.

Pull the stator cover and get rid of the connector. Solder and heat shrink the wires together instead. That plugs go bad, and can and will take out the stator (you have to pull the engine to change the stator, not a fun job)

Your bike is fuel injected, no? If riding it, with the sea foam doesn't smooth it out in a tank or two, then it's time to look at all the vacuum lines (I'd do it anyway) and start replacing them. Remember this bike aint no spring chicken... and all those rubber hoses are old.

look at the dates on the tires, replace if older then 5 or 6 years old, replace them... Also, check the valve stems (they rot). Change the clutch, and brake fluids and rear diff. Lube the rear splines. You do these things, and these bikes will last forever.

And yes, the engine and trans share oil. These bikes seem to like Rotella.




Howdy, ok where we stand is the smoke is clearing up some, uncovered the air filter and um it was dirty is to me a understatement and i don't believe it was sealed right. New seal and filter ordered. Fresh full tank of gas and seafoam added, along with seafoam in the oil. Bike came with timing belt in its trunk bump im skeptical to use it.

Working on rear caliper. Was stuck and found that silder bolt was bent. Leaving dealer with new one as we speak and hope nothing was damaged.

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Rednaxs60 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:34 pm

My '85 LTD also smoked when left on the side stand for a few days. I put a 1" pad under the side stand and can leave it for several days and does not smoke when started. It still has some lean with the pad under the side stand. Cheers
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:53 pm

new filter will be in tomorrow so we will see how she runs then. i honestly think she might have been choking her out. would explain excessive richness and boggy idle. repair my rear brakes and bled it. at first we were confused then i read to do the front first and thats where all the air was. now they both work!.

dor those of you that have done it. how hard is doing the fork seals? mine are shot and need to be done but i rather not pay almost 200 for a tool i will hardly use

Transwing09
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:57 pm

3/16 update. Ok so got. New filter in bike starts up and responds better but still smokes but only a little. Decided to do a spark test. ( pull one plug each while running). Sitting on the bike when pulling either plug theres a big difference. On the right side however. Rear plug makes little difference front plug makes no, if any, difference. So before pulling out comp tester is there anything you guys can think of for me to try before condemning head gasket?

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby urbanmadness » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:34 pm

Do the compression test. Also examine the plug... does it look steam cleaned? I'd also check to see if that cylinder has spark. You might have a bad plug, wire or plug cap. A compression test rules out a lot of things.

Does the bike have coolant in it or just water? If the smoke is a head gasket, the smoke will smell sweet if it's coolant (it will actually be steam).

Also, this is a fuel injected bike? correct? It might be a plugged injector (it's an SEI). Is the exhaust on that port cooler then the others?

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:55 pm

urbanmadness wrote:Do the compression test. Also examine the plug... does it look steam cleaned? I'd also check to see if that cylinder has spark. You might have a bad plug, wire or plug cap. A compression test rules out a lot of things.

Does the bike have coolant in it or just water? If the smoke is a head gasket, the smoke will smell sweet if it's coolant (it will actually be steam).

Also, this is a fuel injected bike? correct? It might be a plugged injector (it's an SEI). Is the exhaust on that port cooler then the others?



turns out the tester i have doesnt hit the bike, dammit. no these are brand new plugs i installed yesterday and didn't start until today. when pulled the tips were completely black and the one with no change in idle was wet. stuck a old plug in the boot ( or cap which ever its called) started the bike and there's spark but it seems intermittent? and alternates between good sparks and weak sparks in my opinion.

not sure about coolant ill double check tomorrow if its not raining i know resevoir has fluid in it and is relatively full. the smoke coming out of the bike does not smell sweet at all just rich. yes it is fuel injected.

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby urbanmadness » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:43 pm

Ok, sounds like an ignition problem. It could be a bad wire or plug boot, cracked coil, etc.

Let's get that plug working and see if that helps with the rich condition.... A misfire sometimes will give the fuel injection computer, hearburn.

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:11 pm

i have gl1500 coils coming in tomorrow that im going to throw on. turns out that plug is firing but i think its weak only noticable difference is when im reving it and pull it off. also am replacing vacuum lines. never realized how much wiring goes into these things until i fulled the faux tank oiff

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby julimike54 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:38 pm

Have you checked 12V reading going to coils? If the voltage is low or intermittent you could see that reflected in plug spark.
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Transwing09
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:40 pm

I have not but i can. Do they get power with engine off key on?

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby julimike54 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:52 pm

Reference test procedure here & the next page
http://classicgoldwings.com/forum/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=2009&image_id=19814
sorry only place I know has the procedure
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:28 pm

Your SEI is the same as the '85 LTD. The wire to the coils is a black/white from the kill switch. This wire also feeds several other relays/switches and the voltage getting to the coils through this wire can be quite a bit less than 12VDC. Some on this forum have seen 10VDC. This wire connects to the negative side of the coil. The positive side of the coil goes to the plugs.

After having read this info on this site, I looked for a mod to rectify this situation. Found this diagram that illustrates what I did to mine:


The wire from the "kill" switch energizes the relay (relays don't need a lot of power to operate) that allows a much stronger 12VDC signal to the coils. I have the 12VDC supply to the relay fused from an accessory fuse block that I added to the bike.

Cheers
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Transwing09
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:48 pm

thanks i will look into getting that dones!

3/19 update. swapped out to the gl1500 coils and while she does start up fasterm and rev easier; she sounds like she still has a misfire. idle is around 800-820. replaced Vacuum hoses that were bad and found no vacuum leaks. im really lost. could it possibly be the TPS? i think i read somewhere about it causing a mess sometimes?

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:03 pm

I have installed test "taps" in the wiring for the throttle position sensor (TPS).

The TPS has four tests that can be done. The wires from the TPS are red, green and light green with stripe. The manual calls for a white wire for testing. This is the same as the light green wire.

1. Input/output voltage - 4.75V to 5.25V - checked between the green (grd) and red wires
2. Voltage rise on throttle opening - to rise smoothly - checked between green (grd) and white (light green marked) wires
3. Throttle arm voltage inspection - a 2.9mm (0.11 in) gauge is inserted between the throttle arm and throttle stop screw - output voltage to be 0.475V to 0.495V -
4. TPS resistance - sensor resistance 4-6 K ohms - checked between green (grd) and red wires - this procedure requires the harness from the TPS to be disconnected at the connector under the false tank

I did test 1 and 2. The input/output voltage is steady at 5V. The voltage rise on throttle opening appears to me to be quite smooth; ergo, pass.

Hope this helps.
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Transwing09
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:10 pm

ok um how do you get the connector to separate?

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:51 pm

Transwing09 wrote:ok um how do you get the connector to separate?


I tried to separate the connector, but I have big hands and I could not work in such a small space. I did this change when I was replacing the timing belts and had the front end apart. I cut the wires from the TPS to the connector about 6 inches from the TPS. I then hooked in three wires and ran these to under the travel computer. I can now check the TPS whenever.

I also installed a new ground bus bar. These old bikes can have ground issues even when it seems the grounds are good.

Fuel injected bikes need good grounds and connections. As I am rearranging the grounds and clean/update the various connections, I find the bike is working that much better. My intention is to keep working at the grounds and connections until I am satisfied that I have done as much as I can. I expect the bike will benefit from all this work.

Hopes this helps.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Transwing09
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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Transwing09 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:55 pm

im a giant person as well (6' 8") big hands and yeah getting that connector is a no. by hooked in do you mean you spliced in?

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Re: 86 Gl1200 SEI intro and smoke issue

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:08 pm

Transwing09 wrote:im a giant person as well (6' 8") big hands and yeah getting that connector is a no. by hooked in do you mean you spliced in?


Yes. I have some pictures of what I did at this page.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31062&start=100

Hope this helps as well.

Cheers


"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest


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