air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi


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roadwanderer2
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air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:46 am



ok, i replaced both forks on my 86 1200 SEi, installed 4 new "O" rings on the air separator valve as per repair manual shows, got everything back together, put air into the front forks and its leaking air from the separator valve so i took everything back off and went thru it again and im STILL getting an air leak from the left side of the valve. i took it apart AGAIN to see if anything was not where it was supposed to be, even removed the new "O" rings to check for any "nicks" that i might have gotten into them, but they are ok. the right side is good, no air leaks, but for some reason i can't get the air valve to seal on the left side.

i've been working on these forks for the last 3 days now and im not getting anywhere with them. is it possible that when i first took them apart, spreading the upper t/t to get the fork to drop down, could i have maybe opened it up too wide causing it not to seal the air valve when i tightened everything back together?

anyone have any ideas?

stuart.



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twocams
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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby twocams » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:00 pm

Ya I would say anything is possible. Sounds like you're a pro by now? Have you tried a thicker "o" ring, not bigger around. One that sits up higher. Plus a little vaseline for good measure.

twocams

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:35 pm

thats one thing i haven't thought about, but i can take one of the old ones to the parts store and see if they have ones that are a little thicker but the same diameter. i know i ordered the correct ones because they are identical to the ones i took out. maybe they aren't thick enough? thanks for the advise.

stuart.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:18 pm

well, i tried a slightly thicker "O" ring and the fork tube wouldn't even go thru them so i put the new-er ones back in and its the same thing. i can't get this air valve to seal. i noticed that there are 4 grooves in the separator valve, 2 of which is where the air comes out of and the other 2 are where the "O" ring seats. i don't know why, but it just wont stop leaking air from the left side. tomorrow im gonna call "mother Honda" and ask them if they have any suggestions. short of using some liquid sealant once the "O" rings are in place i dont know what else to think of doing.

stuart.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby twocams » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:42 pm

Is this also called the air equalizer at the top of the fork tubes? How can you tell this is where the air is coming from.
Do you have a picture of what you're working on? Something isn't right, not only that it's wrong.....Hummmmm :shock:

twocams.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:07 pm

twocams wrote:Is this also called the air equalizer at the top of the fork tubes? How can you tell this is where the air is coming from.
Do you have a picture of what you're working on? Something isn't right, not only that it's wrong.....Hummmmm :shock:

twocams.


yes, that is the part im talking about. i can tell air is coming out of it because when i go to fill it with air from my air compressor, i can hear it and feel it coming out from the bottom of the left equalizer. i put it back together again and the leak is a lot less now, but still leaking nevertheless. taking a pic of it won't do any good because the part is still attached to the triple tree and i don't think my camera will capture enough of it to take a pic due to improper lighting in my garage. i MIGHT be able to take a pic of it if i hold my drop light over it. i'll see what i can do in the morning when i have more lighting.

there's only one other way to fix this problem and that is to get a pair of progressive springs and put them in and forget about using the air pressure, but other than removing the 2 springs from each of the forks, what else would i have to remove to install the new springs into the forks. do the dampening rods stay in or would i have to remove those also.

stuart.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby twocams » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:46 pm

Never mind about the picture. We are talking about the same thing. I just bought progressives for my wing. My buddy and I spent 2 hours trying to get the top caps back on my wing. I think someone changed the short springs to a stiffer type at some point in its life. I see you can get them for about $50 a pair. They are a stiff SOB. Im just taking the old 2 piece springs out and using the progressive. Nothing else.

twocams

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:43 am

well, im thinking about doing the same thing. i found a bike repair shop near the dragon that i stopped at the other day, and he's willing to take the rear wheel off my bike to replace my back tire AND install the rear brake pads for only $50.00 (dealer gets $185 just for the labor), so im gonna let him do that, and while im there im gonna ask him how much to replace the fork springs too. i did a "customer review" search on him and he's got 5 stars on all his reviews. his place is called "129 motorcycle pitstop" and its right near the dragon so its really convenient to have him do it.

im gonna put the bike back together today and take it to him. personally, i think that changing over to progressive front fork springs will not only remove the need to put air in the forks, but it will also improve the ride and handling of the bike. one quick question....did you have to remove the damper rods to install the springs or do they stay in the fork tubes.

stuart.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby twocams » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:12 am

Not sure what damper rods are, so guess I didnt. Just took the short spring out, thin washer between springs and long spring. I just used my magnet.Pulled halfway out let drip for a while in tube. I just put new ATF in and going to leave. I bought some 15wt fork oil but some says its a real stiff ride. So ill leave the ATF for now.

twocams

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby julimike54 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:22 am

Apply soapy water around the area you think it's leaking to pin point the exact location of leak. Maybe something beside the O-ring is leaking? Could it be the airline fitting leaking at the collar on the left side? Is the top of both forks at the same height in the upper fork bridge? Is there any gap between the upper fork bridge and the air equalizer collars, or do they have the same gap all the way around on both left & right? I'm wondering what can be different between the 2. On mine I see a very small gap (less than 1/16" I'd guess). Do you see the stop ring on both forks, below the air equalizer? Leave one of those off & you might have the assemblies mis-located. Per manual, slide forks up until they are stopped by the stop ring. This has to be one of those that will turn into a DOH! (ala Simpson). There are only so many things that can leak, 'collar', 'O-ring' 'fork tube' and 'air line/fitting'.

Also re: 15wt...I replaced springs to progressive (long ago) and put 15wt oil in. Run one bar on the air. Some might think too stiff, but for me it's just right. I like a taunt FE ride, course when I'm going over those lousy concrete freeway joints it's not as nice as a plusher setting :lol:

Best of luck
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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:37 am

twocams wrote:Not sure what damper rods are, so guess I didnt. Just took the short spring out, thin washer between springs and long spring. I just used my magnet.Pulled halfway out let drip for a while in tube. I just put new ATF in and going to leave. I bought some 15wt fork oil but some says its a real stiff ride. So ill leave the ATF for now.

twocams
the damper rods go into the bottom of the lower fork tubes. i have a photo of them but i cant copy/paste it here to show you. yes, i've also heard the ride might be a little "stiffer", but im willing to deal with that rather than having to keep putting air into them. since these forks have already been rebuilt with new fluid, bushings and seals, the only thing im gonna do is replace the springs and be done with them.

stuart.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:43 am

julimike54 wrote:Apply soapy water around the area you think it's leaking to pin point the exact location of leak. Maybe something beside the O-ring is leaking? Could it be the airline fitting leaking at the collar on the left side? Is the top of both forks at the same height in the upper fork bridge? Is there any gap between the upper fork bridge and the air equalizer collars, or do they have the same gap all the way around on both left & right? I'm wondering what can be different between the 2. On mine I see a very small gap (less than 1/16" I'd guess). Do you see the stop ring on both forks, below the air equalizer? Leave one of those off & you might have the assemblies mis-located. Per manual, slide forks up until they are stopped by the stop ring. This has to be one of those that will turn into a DOH! (ala Simpson). There are only so many things that can leak, 'collar', 'O-ring' 'fork tube' and 'air line/fitting'.

Also re: 15wt...I replaced springs to progressive (long ago) and put 15wt oil in. Run one bar on the air. Some might think too stiff, but for me it's just right. I like a taunt FE ride, course when I'm going over those lousy concrete freeway joints it's not as nice as a plusher setting :lol:

Best of luck


i never removed the air line from the collar or the collar itself, only the "O" rings. i replaced the "stop rings" with new ones and the forks are seated into the triple tree and are equal height on both sides. i know where its leaking from, but i cant stop it from leaking so im gonna simply replace the OEM springs with progressives and take it from there.

stuart.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby Rednaxs60 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:47 pm

I had Race Tech springs and valves put in the front forks of my '85 LTD. The damper rod had to have 2 new holes drilled making 4 per damper rod. These holes were also enlarged to approximately 1/2". The shop put in 20 wt oil as well. Have not had to use air in the front forks at all. Gives a very nice ride not too stiff. Cheers
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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:43 pm

hey Ernest, thanks for this info. i'll keep it in mind. right now as the bike sits, it seems to be holding air so for now im going to leave well enough alone. if the air leaks down again, i'll replace the springs and do away with the air system.

stuart.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby twocams » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:55 pm

Did I miss something here Road? You say its not leaking air right now, what,where,how? KOOL!!

twocams

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:36 am

well, i haven't checked it yet this morning, but if its still holding air pressure im not gonna touch ANYTHING lol.

listen, i stopped at this bike repair shop near the dragon yesterday to have my back tire changed, and boy this guy did a great job. he replaced my tire in about an hour or so and it turns out that i didn't need to replace my rear brake pads. the ones that are on the back look almost new so he didn't change them. also inside his store, it has a little dining area and gift shop. they make a GREAT Ruben sandwich at a reasonable price and man was it GOOD.

if anyone if going near or on the dragon and you need your bike serviced or just want to get something to eat, i would highly recommend this place. its called ""129 motorcycle pitstop". nice little place, friendly staff and good service.

stuart.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:40 am

well, i went out to my garage this morning and checked the front forks, and yes, they did leak down overnight so next month im gonna order the new springs and put them in. one question thought.....does the tightly wound end of the spring go in first or the more open end.

stuart.

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby twocams » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:10 am

Well if I ever get out to Tennessee have to stop for a sandwich. I did go thru Tennessee once around 2000 on my way back from Florida. After working on a Railroad project that was going to last 8 months but lasted 2 yrs. :shock: I have read the spring can go in either way. But im going with the tight coils down, seems like it would be easier to compress?

twocams

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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:58 am

roadwanderer2 wrote:well, i went out to my garage this morning and checked the front forks, and yes, they did leak down overnight so next month im gonna order the new springs and put them in. one question thought.....does the tightly wound end of the spring go in first or the more open end.

stuart.


Stuart - from the progressive spring install PDF:

". Install your new fork springs into the forks. Mechanically, it makes no difference which way the springs are installed. Some manuals will state; install the spring with the close wound end towards the bottom. This is done because sometimes there will be less spring noise. The springs will perform exactly the same regardless of which direction they are placed. Check the spacer length requirement for your motorcycle in the enclosed supplement. If not listed, you must calculate the pre-load. What is pre-load? Pre-load is the distance the spring compresses when the fork cap is installed. You may or may not utilize a spacer to achieve proper pre-load. The spacer in itself is not "pre-load". It just
helps to achieve it. Why is pre-load important? It determines the proper ride height which in turn affects how the bike handles."

Here is the site: http://www.progressivesuspension.com/pd ... s/3055.pdf

Cheers
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Re: air separator valve on an 86 GL 1200 aspy SEi

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:35 pm

hey red, thanks for the link to the progressive instruction page. it makes for good reading. i guess its not just a matter of removing the old springs and dropping in a set of new ones. things have to be considdered to make the bike function and handle well. im going to let someone else install the springs. someone that knows more about doing them than i do so it can be done right the first time around. the tech that changed my rear tire yesterday said he will put them in for me. im not sure what he'll charge, but it will be worth it im sure.

stuart.




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