Took the Wing out


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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twocams
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Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade, 2003 K1200GT BMW, 1969 R69S BMW
Sold : 84 V65 Magna, 82 Moto Guzzi, XS 1100 Yamaha,84 Wing Int., 80 650 Special, Only new bike 82 XV750 Virago (Guam),Honda 250,84 R100RT BMW,87 K100 LT BMW,93 K1100 LT BMW, 91 535 Virago, Honda 50

Took the Wing out

Postby twocams » Mon May 09, 2016 1:21 pm



The #4 carburetor was leaking some while the sun heated the gas tank. Only while setting. So while I had rebuilt all 4 carbs that one I didn't put in a new seat, just the float valve. live and learn. Also I found one of the main jets was plugged up. Which I'm sure I cleaned, but there ya go. Then there was the vacuum hose off of #4 carb that goes to the ignitor box I believe? Anyway there was no hose to it the T fitting was just tied off to the frame. So after a few hr. of playing with all that & resynchronizing the carbs she runs like a "raped ape".
Rode 30 miles just to see how she felt after 4 months. There still are rather smooth arnt they?
Stopped at the Shell station for a little top off, which I never do unless only one around. Holy Crap Batman, $2.65 per gal. for regular are you kidding me. And .10 per gal.more if you use your debit card. No wonder I never use their gas. So I went one block over and up the street for the same gas for $2.34 per gal. I only needed 2.5 gal. But just the Idea I guess of their gas being .30 more.


twocams



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Rednaxs60
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby Rednaxs60 » Mon May 09, 2016 8:48 pm

Come up north here, we can show you how to spend money on gas. :twisted: :twisted: You won't just be saying Holy Crap Batman.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Rusty Bike
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby Rusty Bike » Mon May 09, 2016 9:03 pm

Cool pic. You have done two things I want to do to my SEi. Chop the windshield and remove the trunk. Did you add a tail light to the license plate light? What did you use? Did you alter the rear rack. I want to add a low sissy bar, may use the stock back rest on the bar. Good work on the carbs, this ethanol gas sucks. I have been running RV gas...$3.50 a gal but just putting around the back roads for now till I get mine straightened out more. It's not even legal yet! LOL

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twocams
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Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade, 2003 K1200GT BMW, 1969 R69S BMW
Sold : 84 V65 Magna, 82 Moto Guzzi, XS 1100 Yamaha,84 Wing Int., 80 650 Special, Only new bike 82 XV750 Virago (Guam),Honda 250,84 R100RT BMW,87 K100 LT BMW,93 K1100 LT BMW, 91 535 Virago, Honda 50

Re: Took the Wing out

Postby twocams » Tue May 10, 2016 9:37 am

Everything is stock, Rusty. The windshield hasn't been put back on yet. The saddlebags have the stop turns built in, License plate light is built into the rear center fender. Not sure im going to use the big ass trunk. Maybe to go longer trips? Like to check out the gas prices up North. :idea: i still have a problem with # 2 & 4 plug wires not firing all the time. New coils and wires. :( #4 stops firing for long periods of time (2-3 sec.) But the plugs look good. Just not firing constant. So until I get all this little crap straight Ill leave the tupperware off.

twocams

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geraldm
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby geraldm » Tue May 10, 2016 11:08 am

yup we pay close to 1.00 per liter which brings us up to around 4.00 for your smaller American gallon . and now with fort mac on fire I would expect it to be over 5.00 by summer holidays .. I'm betting the american prices will also be affected by the fires .. couple years back we were 1.43 per liter and that is not so bad if you consider some other country prices for fuel .

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virgilmobile
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby virgilmobile » Tue May 10, 2016 2:01 pm

Shell is always higher here too.
Today Exxon is $1.82
Shell is $1.96
Yea I know..We have processing plants close by...More than one so competition is pretty good.
I got gas at Sam's club yesterday at $1.76
Don't get mad... It costs a fortune in electric to keep the house from growing mold.

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Aussie81Interstate
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby Aussie81Interstate » Tue May 10, 2016 7:39 pm

You guys are lucky - we pay in OZ anywhere from $1.00 per litre (very rare) and mostly upwwards to $1.40 on occasions or higher perl itre.

Rusty Bike
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby Rusty Bike » Tue May 10, 2016 8:35 pm

Yes, the big ass trunk has gota go. Save for trips maybe but I may prefer soft bags. I am thinking of adding a tail light and turn signals to the license plate light. There is a fine mounting setup already existing. I feel this will be a safety upgrade and should look OEM if well done. More rear lighting is a plus IMO. I wonder if there is an aftermarket rear rack/sissybar combo available for the GL1200, in lew of the trunk? This may be a job for the TIG welder and some SS tubeing.

Twocams, How do you know which plug is not firing or for how long? Voltage supply to the coils would be something I would look at. Maybe you could a rig a volt meter to the coil 12V input and watch it when the malfunction occurs. Do you have the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual, that may be helpfull. Good luck with you bike...Rusty

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twocams
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Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade, 2003 K1200GT BMW, 1969 R69S BMW
Sold : 84 V65 Magna, 82 Moto Guzzi, XS 1100 Yamaha,84 Wing Int., 80 650 Special, Only new bike 82 XV750 Virago (Guam),Honda 250,84 R100RT BMW,87 K100 LT BMW,93 K1100 LT BMW, 91 535 Virago, Honda 50

Re: Took the Wing out

Postby twocams » Wed May 11, 2016 10:17 am

Well Rusty, I have been using my timing light. Just hook it up as if you were going to time your bike. point the gun toward your face and pull the trigger. i have hooked it up to all 4 plug wires one at a time. 1 & 3 have a brite study glow ( like a bright flashlite) at 2700-3000 RPM. But 2 & 4 plug wires flash intermittently at any RPM.
And # 4 stopped flashing altogether for several seconds at about 2700 rpm. What kinda stumps me is they are using different coils to fire 2 & 4. And if I know anything about ignition coils, they should all be firing the same all the time while the engine is running. You will get slower flashes at lower RPM. But study flashes like a flashlite at higher RPM. The coils,cables,plug caps,plugs are NEW. The pulse generator is new.
Im going to check the coil wires at the coils/plug wire at coils. Maybe even check the resistance of wires.
Now if im wrong about any of this, let me know....I have been wrong before just cant remember when. :D

twocams

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby Rednaxs60 » Wed May 11, 2016 10:45 am

Twocams - read your thread again, and find it interesting that 2 and 4 are giving you grief. As you mention, 1 and 2 are powered from the same coil, and 3 and 4 from the same coil. No issue with 1 and 3. When 1 fires so does two and vice versa, the same with 2 and 4.

Since the above is apparently true, switch the wires at the coil and determine if 1 and 3 now go south. Highly unlikely that the coil is bad, but never know.

I also did a mod to change the 12 VDC signal to the coils. The black/white wire from the kill switch powers several items before the signal gets to the coils. It has been mentioned that there can be a significant drop in VDC at the coil because of this, as much as 2 VDC. I ran a 12 VDC feed to the coils almost directly from the battery through a fused wire. I believe I now have as close to the battery voltage as is possible, coils like to see as much battery voltage as possible. Just another thought.

Hope you get this figured out soon, too nice not to be riding.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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geraldm
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby geraldm » Wed May 11, 2016 11:06 pm

Do the coils heat up after the engine has been missing ?? if so you could very well have poor plug wires new or not also plugs , maybe try wiring your timing light up straight from the coils that would for sure tell you if the rest is ok . just a thought

Rusty Bike
Posts: 271
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Location: New castle, PA
Motorcycle: 86 GL1200 SEi, 78 Yamaha XS750SE, 86 Honda XL125, 4.5 HP belt drive Minibike my dad built, foot clutch!

Re: Took the Wing out

Postby Rusty Bike » Thu May 12, 2016 5:42 pm

Are you sure it is not the timeing light?? Hmm....

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twocams
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Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade, 2003 K1200GT BMW, 1969 R69S BMW
Sold : 84 V65 Magna, 82 Moto Guzzi, XS 1100 Yamaha,84 Wing Int., 80 650 Special, Only new bike 82 XV750 Virago (Guam),Honda 250,84 R100RT BMW,87 K100 LT BMW,93 K1100 LT BMW, 91 535 Virago, Honda 50

Re: Took the Wing out

Postby twocams » Thu May 12, 2016 7:43 pm

Thanks all for the help. I took both coils off and played with them. You know, drop them see If I can catchem on the first balance. Still the same thing. So I did a compression test 1,2,3, 140+ # 4, 120. So im going to ride it this summer and may do some head work or other this winter.

Now the timing light, I have had for 12-15 yrs. It's kinda like an old girlfriend, hard to let go. I think she is still good. :shock:

twocams

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geraldm
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby geraldm » Thu May 12, 2016 9:45 pm

Do these engines have a wasted spark ignition or do they just fire on compression. .

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby Rednaxs60 » Thu May 12, 2016 11:12 pm

Looked up "wasted spark ignition" and the 1200s and possible the 1100/1000 have it. Interesting concept; however, one of the cons is that it is harder to troubleshoot.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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geraldm
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby geraldm » Fri May 13, 2016 12:02 am

Point being the timing light is probably a cheapo ( no offense twocams ) and is not capable of pick up more than one signal at a time . generally wasted spark occurs on the exhaust stroke to help eliminate emissions ( it burns up some of the wasted exhaust gasses and does little or nothing for power concerns ) so what is happening it shows a signal from one piston on ignition stroke and an opposed piston will be getting another spark at the same time on exhaust stroke . sorry cant explain it better than that I barely understand it myself :? I have a twin rotor wankle engine in my drag bike from an 86 mazda RX7 with wasted spark ignition had so many problems converting it finally built my own single fire direct fire ignition . now I just use the trailing plugs ( they use the wasted spark ) to plug the holes ( two spark plugs for each rotor ) and run a wire from 1 trailing to the other just for the hell of it and give the guys that know everything something to go home and think about . I got 5 bucks that says twocams is playing with the head and is just having a good time seeing what people think :lol: well Another day another 25 cents in the hole . have a good one .. Gerald m

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twocams
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Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade, 2003 K1200GT BMW, 1969 R69S BMW
Sold : 84 V65 Magna, 82 Moto Guzzi, XS 1100 Yamaha,84 Wing Int., 80 650 Special, Only new bike 82 XV750 Virago (Guam),Honda 250,84 R100RT BMW,87 K100 LT BMW,93 K1100 LT BMW, 91 535 Virago, Honda 50

Re: Took the Wing out

Postby twocams » Fri May 13, 2016 11:30 am

Come on Gerald, cut the old man some slack. :) My first NEW car was a 1973 Mazda RX3. Bought it for $3500 in Fort Worth Texas I was 25 yrs at the time. My son has a 1988 10th anniversary RX7. (read up on them kool car).

Now for our scheduled programing. My problem is 1 & 3 cylinders fire from # 1 & 2 coils. And 3 & 4 cylinders also fire from those same # 1 & 2 coils. Plugs 1 & 3 fire great but plugs 2 & 4 are hit and miss. Even if its wasted spark they should all fire the same....correct? Now, I did find that testing the voltage of the coil input plugs one only has 10.5 volts the other 11.5 volts. Engine off key on. Dont know if this is part of my problem or not. my cheap timing light :lol:

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby Rednaxs60 » Fri May 13, 2016 3:51 pm

You can run a line from the battery (put a 5 amp fuse in line) so you have true battery voltage at the coils and test from there. Coils like a good 12VDC signal. This has come up on a couple of threads as well. I did this on mine through a fused wire from the accessory fuse block that is switched on/off with an inexpensive auto relay. As close to battery voltage as possible/practical.

If you are going to do this as a test, I would somehow put a disconnect between the battery and coils so you do not have 12 VDC to the coils when not running.

Just a thought.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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twocams
Posts: 554
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:25 am
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade, 2003 K1200GT BMW, 1969 R69S BMW
Sold : 84 V65 Magna, 82 Moto Guzzi, XS 1100 Yamaha,84 Wing Int., 80 650 Special, Only new bike 82 XV750 Virago (Guam),Honda 250,84 R100RT BMW,87 K100 LT BMW,93 K1100 LT BMW, 91 535 Virago, Honda 50

Re: Took the Wing out

Postby twocams » Fri May 13, 2016 4:17 pm

Think maybe I should try this Ernest, So give a play by play here. Did you just leave the ground on and remove the 12 V wire....or. Fuse/relay :idea: how did U hook them up.
Thanks
twocams

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Took the Wing out

Postby Rednaxs60 » Fri May 13, 2016 5:52 pm

Here's what I did. There is a black/white stripe wire on each coil. This is the 12 VDC wire to the coil from the kill switch. It supplies other items/relays, using older wire and hence, the voltage drop. This is the wire you disconnect from the coil(s) and hook the test wire in place of this.

The blue/yellow and yellow/blue wires leave on the coils.

If you decide to do this as a permanent fix, I would recommend you use one of the black/white striped wires to energize the relay you are using. What happens is that here is a 12V signal to the relay when the key is turned on. This energizes the relay and connects the 12VDC from the battery to the coils allowing the bike to start. When the kill switch is used the 12V signal to the relay is cancelled, de-energizing the relay and stopping the 12 VDC signal to the coils, stopping the engine. Works a treat.

Here is picture of my setup.



The picture also shows how I changed the sense line to the RR as well. The black wire to the RR is the battery voltage wire. By connecting this wire almost directly to the battery, the RR provides a more accurate charge to the battery. The old sense wire could have a voltage loss the same as the wire for the coils, resulting in an overcharging situation.

Here is a picture I got of this forum that I based my change on for the RR.



Hope this helps

Cheers


"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest


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