Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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Breiber
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:06 pm
Location: Ladysmith, BC Canada
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Aspencade

Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby Breiber » Wed May 11, 2016 11:06 pm



Still working through the many little deficiencies in my recent purchase. The deeper I dig the more little things I find. In hindsight I wish I had spent $1500 more and avoided some of these problems.

It appears that I too have a stator problem. The stator and RR wires and connectors have been changed by a PO and are showing minor signs of heat. The starter solenoid is toast it is heavily browned and corroded.

My stator produces AC and DC voltage within spec on all 3 legs. There is no continuity to ground. However when I check resistance between pins I only get get continuity between 2 pins. Infinite resistance to the 3rd.

I have decided to complete my restoration as best as I can but my focus is to get back on the road and stop the hemorrhage of cash. I am hoping that it will last for the summer and I'll look at an alternator in the winter.

Does anyone have some insight into why my stator would pass voltage tests but not continuity. Do stator fail gradually or catastrophically?

Thanks for any leads,

Brian



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virgilmobile
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Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 12, 2016 7:49 am

Your stator is 3 separate coils with a common connection.
Resistance measurements checks 2 sets at a time.One of them failed.
While running the engine,voltage is still developed in the coil and can "leak" through the broken connection.A meter doesn't apply significant load to the coil and you can read volts there.As soon as you apply a load to that coil (hooking it to the R/R module) the volts will go away.
Voltage will show through a bad connection until you try to draw power.
If it failed the resistance test (A/B--A/C--B/C) on any one,replace the stator.

Breiber
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Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby Breiber » Thu May 12, 2016 12:50 pm

Sigh...I think you are right.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 12, 2016 1:51 pm

Sorry.been there done that.
Unfortunately when a single part of the 3 phase system fails,there's not enough power developed by the remaining two to keep the bike from discharging the battery.
There isn't any magic that can be done either.
You have just a couple of choices...
Poorboy it or rebuild the charging system with all user approved mods.

Breiber
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:06 pm
Location: Ladysmith, BC Canada
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Aspencade

Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby Breiber » Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 pm

During my one ride on the bike the battery was discharging but the stator was producing enough to satisfy all required loads. I was hoping that fixing some shoddy wiring, replacing the battery and adding some LED lights would get me through the summer. Perhaps I'm just setting myself up for failure

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virgilmobile
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Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby virgilmobile » Fri May 13, 2016 9:05 am

I have doubts.Perhaps if you could run dark (except the tequired headlight)and keep the rpm above 2k all the time, there might be a few amps left over to charge the battery.
No radio,brake lamps,park lamps,etc.

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SilverDave
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 GoldWing Aspy

Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby SilverDave » Fri May 13, 2016 11:06 am

Run " Dark " ??
... hmmm what a terrible way to travel ! The cool thing about travelling on a Wing is all the gadgets : CB, Radio, comm, music , all those pretty and unnecessary lights, the Ring of Fire , the coffee pot, the smallish hot tub ... LOL

... and all that assumes that you almost never need to start the thing ... several hundred CCA draw there when doing that , I assume .

I think I would only ever " Run Dark " if I was trying desperately to make it back home , and was running with a friend , and had several spare batteries on board ....

SilverDave

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wilmo
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Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby wilmo » Tue May 17, 2016 12:29 pm

Your statement about HOW you checked the stator isn't clear. When checking the stator, the 3 wires must be disconnected from the circuit completely. AC voltage must be 50-70 v on all 3 leg pairs engine running at 3k rpm. Battery must be fully charged during this to keep the bike running. There must not be any resistance between any one wire and ground, and there should be 2-4 ohms resistance between any two leg pairs, engine not running for these tests. The low resistance is harder to measure so a good quality meter is required for this. You didn't specify if you disconnected the wires during these checks so that's why I asked. The DC voltage while connected and running does not distinguish between the regulator and stator so that test is inconclusive. If all these check out, then the stator is not at fault and you need to concentrate on the regulator/rectifier.
My stator when it failed showed signs of gradual failure, specifically in the AC voltage tests. The static tests always checked out but the AC would sometimes show 70v and other times showed 50v using the same meter. eventually, one pair dropped out to 20vac and that was it. During that time it left me stranded a couple of times and needed a push start. I chose to replace the stator rather than the poorboy, and discovered I needed to do a clutch slave rebuild as well.

Breiber
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Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby Breiber » Tue May 17, 2016 11:19 pm

Wilmo,
Yes the stator was disconnected for the test. I don't remember the exact voltages now but I think it was around 50 volts AC on each leg @ 3500 rpm. A little low but technically a pass. I know the DC test wont differentiate between the stator and RR. I was testing it initially to see if the battery was seeing a voltage returning to it. I believe that I was seeing about 12.89 volts DC but.....I am suspicious of the battery I was using, the starter solenoid which was not yet replaced looked awful (corrosion), and there was a rats nest of wiring in the rear that I was suspicious of shorts to ground. I recognized from the diagnostics that I did that the stator was not producing all that it could but I still struggle to see why one leg isn't continuous to the other two. There is no continuity to ground. I used a good Fluke meter for the testing so I am confident in my measurements.

Brian

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wilmo
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Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby wilmo » Wed May 18, 2016 11:54 am

That is confusing. Especially because you do get proper AC voltage from all 3 pairs. The open on one leg to the others doesn't fit in this equation, you'd expect it to be there as well. Not sure what to think at this point is the issue but it does look like a stator replacement in your future. :x

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virgilmobile
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Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 18, 2016 12:47 pm

remember back in the day of the gl1000 when the neutral lamp would stay on dim.Replacing the switch fixed this.The cause was contaminates (carbon) in the oil would collect around the contacts and allow some current to leak across the switch contacts...Just like a resistor.

The same problem is showing in this stator...voltage/current is still developed in each coil..Some of it is leaking past a broken connection that hooks to one of them..
Enough to operate a meter (almost no load).
I'll bet 3 cents that if the stator is hooked back to the r/r module and tested again,that one output would be dead.

quote: There must not be any resistance between any one wire and ground, and there should be 2-4 ohms resistance between any two leg pairs

One of the yellow wires does not have the proper resistance reading either.
quote:However when I check resistance between pins I only get get continuity between 2 pins. Infinite resistance to the 3rd.

The meter (measuring ohms) actually applies volts on the leads and measures voltage drop to be able to calculate resistance.
I'll bet again that if the meter can be set to a higher scale,one would see that there is continuity.It just wont be 2 ohms...I'd expect it would be way up in the thousands.

Breiber
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Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby Breiber » Wed May 18, 2016 3:27 pm

Continuity is zero resistance or Zero ohms however u want to look at but yes I do agree with your premise. There is a difference between measuring voltage and a circuits ability to carry amperage. No has ever mentioned testing current buy I suspect that may be a better way to test if the stator is moving current

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Help!!!!!!!!!!!! Stator problems

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 18, 2016 4:03 pm

In actual normal operation,I used a clamp on ac amp meter on my 1200.At 2500 rpm or so,I measured just above 7 amp ac per each leg of the 3 phase.All were equal.
Not everybody has a clamp on ac amp meter,thus the reason for so many separate tests.
Even using a clamp on amp meter can give false readings depending on the RPM and state of battery charge..the R/R module shunts one leg (internal diode) to ground for regulation.I did test mine right after start up before the shunt circuit kicked in.Right at the point of maximum load and lowest battery volts and R/R module running wide open.




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