1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.


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Anthony Garvin
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Motorcycle: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI

1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Fri May 27, 2016 1:54 pm



Still can't fix overcharging issue on 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI. Stator OHM readings are correct.A to B, A to C, B to C, ect. New rectifier/regulator installed. I did the green rectifier wires to battery ground check. Did the black sense wire to positive battery check. Sense wire to positive actually made volts climb faster. Pulled ground off battery and cleaned at frame. Cleaned green wire grounds under false tank. Starts fine, idles and reads 14.1 volts. Any rpm advance causes volts to climb and digital display will hit 16 volts and blink. I can't figure out what is causing the overcharging. I was going to do the black sense wire mod but seeing black wire test to positive failed that is not my issue. I need help from the awesome experts in here. It would be greatly appreciated. One last thing, the stator yellow two wire connection was melted together at rectifier/regulator and the reason for replacement. Bought bike with known issues.



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maintainer
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby maintainer » Fri May 27, 2016 2:49 pm

Typically it's the regulator's intended function to limit or control the incoming charging voltage from an alternator or stator to the battery. If not it would boil the sulfuric acid/electrolite cooking and ruining the battery in short order.
1982 GL 1100 Interstate SOLD
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Rednaxs60
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Rednaxs60 » Fri May 27, 2016 3:17 pm

There are 3 yellow wires from the stator. Under the false tank, if like my '85 LTD there is a 2 wire connector and one other with a single yellow wire. Have circled where I believe the original yellow wires were.


I had an issue with the installed volt meter, always read low. Check with a different one straight from the battery.

Stator may be on the way out. Mine was steady at 13.7 after I soldered the wires between stator and RR, then started to climb, and eventually stopped producing all together. Stator wires inside the case were less than stellar:


Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Rusty Bike » Sun May 29, 2016 7:00 pm

My SEi had bad corrosion in the ground wire ground lugs where the wire goes inside the lug. May not be your problem but take a look. The SEi has a heaver alternator then the A & I models. 500W vs 350W. Do you have a bunch of extra lights on it. If not, I feel the alternator may be a low priority suspect.

Anthony Garvin
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Mon May 30, 2016 2:41 pm

Thanks for the advice gentlemen. Volts from battery are the same as digital display. I will recheck for corrosion in battery ground wire. As of now I believe I will have to remove engine and replace stator.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby virgilmobile » Tue May 31, 2016 3:15 pm

Anthony Garvin wrote: Did the black sense wire to positive battery check. Sense wire to positive actually made volts climb faster.


The voltage regulator function...To the best of my understanding..
When the voltage on the sense wire (black) rises above a preset value referenced to it's dual green ground(14 volts or so)...The regulator circuit shunts one internal diode (there's 6 of them) to ground just long enough to drop the voltage..and then repeats.

With this,Keep in mind that electric actually flows from the battery negative post,through the frame,through all the wiring to get to the R/R module.

Before you rip the engine out,attach your fancy DVM to the battery negative post and the green wires going into the R/R module.Start the bike.There should be no volts between those 2 points...
Note that there are 2 green ground wires...both must be verified perfect grounding.

If there's more than 0.2 (I like to see zero volts) volts dc..Augment that wire or locate replace the bad wiring.
Honda connections were never soldered..just crimped...even the battery cables.

The reason for this test is from the comment you made about the volts going up when augmenting the sense wire.
The only explanation for that is that the regulator ground is not proportional to the battery ground potential or the alternator is leaking some of it's power into the ground and back-feeding the R/R.
This also brings up one question...When the alternator was disconnected for the "A-B,A-C,B-C "test,did you measure ANY resistance from any of the yellow wires to ground?
Even several hundred thousand ohms is bad.

Anthony Garvin
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Tue May 31, 2016 6:46 pm

Thank you for your reply and the new check procedure of green ground wires. I am more confused now than at the beginning. I eliminated burnt connection and put old R/R back on. The volts at idle are 13.1v and then go down to 11.6-11.8v at 2500 rpm. New R/R climbs to 16v at battery while the old reads 12.4v at battery . Checked diodes per Ricky's youtube video of old and new R/R with DVM and both are fine. It has to be bad grounding as you stated. I also think my cheap ebay R/R was a bad choice for a replacement. Will get a Ricky's R/R without question next time.

Anthony Garvin
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:46 pm

I believe I found my issue. More burnt wires in a connection. The burnt wires are two Red's with white stripe and a yellow. The connection is from a black box the regulator connects to. I added some photos. Can someone tell me what this box is and how to test it. Thanks gentleman.
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:26 pm

Never mind it is the radio relay. Going to eliminate connector and solder wires together.

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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Rednaxs60 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:38 am

Putting the alt mod on my '85 LTD and stripped out the yellow wires and red/white striped wire form the wiring harness yesterday.

The two red/white striped wires go to the starter solenoid from the RR for charging. Just after the RR where the wires enter the wiring harness these two wires are spliced together into one red/white striped wire. Half way down the frame in the wire harness this red/white striped wire is spliced together with the red wire from the starter solenoid (this red wire goes to the ignition from the starter solenoid and is always live).

This picture shows the splice of the red/white striped wires:

This picture shows where the red and red/white striped wires are joined and how the wires are joined:


Regarding the two green ground wires from the RR, these are also spliced together into one green wire just after these disappear into the wiring harness.


Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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ekvh
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby ekvh » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:16 pm

Regulators only regulate based on info received via black sense wire. Often the sense wire gets lower voltage readings due to the various connections and switches Honda has them go through. So the regulator thinks the battery is lower than it is and cooks them. A fix for three out of three for me has been to cut the black sense wire and add a relay so the regulator sees actual battery voltage. The last one, we tried three regulators on and each would steadily climb to 17+ volts. Put the relay in and it idles low 13's and fluxuates 14.5-14.6 at 3000 rpm.

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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:21 pm

This is true...even for mine.
His was also tested for this problem as mentioned in the first post and when bypassing the sense wire,the voltage actually increased instead of decreasing.

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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:48 pm

My update on the issues. I soldered burnt connections between wiring harness and radio relay. Plugged in new R/R. Started bike and volts were 13.1 at idle and 14.1 at 2500 rpm. Fixed issues was my thinking. Took bike for short ride and it reverted back to overcharging. When overcharging the headlight and digital display will brighten with higher rpm and dim at lower rpm. Shut it off, restarted it and it went back to normal charging. Shut it off and restarted it again and back to overcharging. I want to scream due to frustration. I hooked green grounds from R/R direct to negative on battery and black sense wire to positive on battery. No change and still overcharging. When hooked thru wiring harness the R/R sometimes gets correct message and works as designed and sometimes it does not. Today I cutting open wiring harness. Going to trace, inspect, continuity check, clean/replace (if need) and solder the connections of the R/W-R and Green wires were connections join. Where do the green grounds connect on the frame ? Knowing the grounding location would help so much. I will fix this dang charging issue. Thanks again for the help gentlemen.

Anthony Garvin
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:42 pm

I added black sense wire relay mod and no change. Leave sense wire unplugged and it works great. Just going to leave black sense wire unplugged and go. Digital dash volt meter reads exactly the same at battery. I am clueless to how it works without sense wire plugged in, relay installed or black wire to positive connection. :shock: Any clues to why it works that way let me know or any issue with black wire being unplugged let me know. Dang bike is worse than a woman. It doesn't know what it wants either. Better luck trying to find what the number 3 smells like.

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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Asp » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:21 am

Does anyone have a circuit diagram of inside the reg/rec so we can work out whats going on here?

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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:15 pm

[youtube][/youtube]


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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby geraldm » Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:43 am

Here is what over charging did to my battery .. the result of very high speed and high RPM. Blew the top right off, only thing holding it down was the battery hold down. Rode it home at a more reasonable speed with no problems, up the ramp into my porch shut it off and it started back up like before it happened. Next morning it still started good, , put a new battery in and never had another problem. Lucky me.. sounded like a shotgun scared the crop out of me.

Anthony Garvin
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:16 am

Took out ignition and found dirty contacts so I cleaned them. Also found plastic guide for the large two prong contact broken. Could be a major part of my issues. Going to super glue center plastic post and pray it holds. I wonder if I could melt it together with my soldering iron? A plastic weld of sorts. If not I am looking at $180 or more for a new switch unless someone can tell me a cheaper replacement.
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:24 am

Ignition switch is an issue. Digital volt meter will display sometimes and not others. If not displaying I can shut off ignition and back on and it works. So ignition needs replaced. I am wondering if someone can explain why the volts will drop when I apply front brake ? If I am at 16v and display is flashing I can apply front brake and volts will drop to 15.6. Bad connection maybe ? Help is appreciated as this post has garnered little responses in the last two weeks.

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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby julimike54 » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:50 am

The voltage drop you describe is to be expected when an electrical load is applied to the system (ie apply brake); not sure if the amount of drop is correct, would have to try on mine to determine actual number. You are also condemning the Ignition switch, get that changed out. You probably have multiple failures that need to be worked out.

QUOTE "Before you rip the engine out, attach your fancy DVM to the battery negative post and the green wires going into the R/R module.Start the bike. There should be no volts between those 2 points...
Note that there are 2 green ground wires...both must be verified perfect grounding.

If there's more than 0.2 (I like to see zero volts) volts dc... Augment that wire or locate replace the bad wiring.
Honda connections were never soldered... just crimped...even the battery cables.

Read more: viewtopic.php?t=33409#ixzz4BwSImJzK" end QUOTE of Virgilmobile

I never saw a post where you answered this question, did it check out properly?

I thought you had determined that the old R/R was low voltage & stated that "cheap ebay R/R was high voltage". From those words you were going to have to try another brand next time.

If you are still at this point, sounds like it to me, then the direction I would take, provided no tests lead to anything else, is to get a R/R from a known good vendor, I believe that there are two such vendors that have been called out on the forum (could be more. but two I remember).

one supplier http://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/part/10-119/ODZIb25HTDEyMDBTRUlzcGVjaWFsZWRpdGlvbg==
another http://www.electrosport.com/street-bikes/honda/gl1200-sei-ltd-goldwing-85-87/honda-regulatorrectifier.html
Image
Riding anything is a good day!
Mike

Anthony Garvin
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:53 pm

Thank you everyone for the help. The Goldwing charging system is working great now. I bought a quality R/R form electrosport and augmented the two green ground wires directly to battery. Both grounds carried 5-6 volts. Bypassing them with the junk ebay R/R and seeing no change in issues made me believe the grounds were fine. Boy was I wrong. I want to thank the members for the advice. It took two times being told to test the volts in grounds wires for me to do it. I apologize for not taking the advice the first time. Thank you for your patience and expert knowledge. God bless gentlemen and have a great Independence Day.

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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Rusty Bike » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:57 am

Yea!! :lol: Good job all! Happy 4th... 8-)

Anthony Garvin
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Anthony Garvin » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:49 pm

Well gentlemen my happiness was short lived. Day two of riding and it went back to undercharging. At the end of my ride the display and lights dimmed and digital volt display stayed at 11.9 volts. I shut it off and went to bed. Next day I started it and it charged normal until engine temp came up and then it started overcharging. 16v on display and DVM shows 17.5 at battery. Would ignition switch be the cause ? Would battery with bad cell cause this ? Is it possible the radio relay (relay is inline with R/R wires) cause this ? Is it remotely possible dirty oil contaminated with metal shavings could attach to stator and cause issues. I plan on trying the relay mod on black sense wire now that I have a good R/R and green ground wires are direct to battery. I do not understand how it worked and then undercharged only to overcharge the next start up. :o I am one more repair attempt away from giving up and selling the bike. I bleed Honda red and don't own anything without wings but this Goldwing seems to be a rare defect in what I consider the best brand made.

Rusty Bike
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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Rusty Bike » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:20 pm

Might be the alternator. From what I've read, they cause goofy problems like this???
Let me know if you decide to sell. My phone # is
Seven 2 four- 6 five 2- six eight 1 two. I live about 200 miles N. of you on I 79...Thanks and good luck...Rick

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Re: 1986 Honda Goldwing SEI overcharging after all tests from threads.

Postby Asp » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:00 am

Does sound like the black sensing wire isn't seeing the voltage it should. The relay mod is a good idea IMHO




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