85 SEi engine removal


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roadwanderer2
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85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:44 am



im taking the motor off of my 86 1200 SEi to do some repairs and maintenance, and i have a question.........can the entire fuel injector assembly, boots,(removed from the plenum), and plenum be unbolted and tied up to the handlebars in the same way that i did with my 83 1100 carburetors or is there another way this plenum has to be removed from the motor.

stuart.



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Rednaxs60
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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:06 pm

Stuart - yes. Take out the intake bolts and tie up the whole unit. You have to remove the air cleaner assembly to allow the unit to be hauled up far enough.

There are some connections to undo/release, but not as many as you would think. There was a couple of connections that the service manual/supplement recommends disconnection at the connectors under the false tank but I disconnected these from the engine itself. One of these is the PG connectors - recommend disconnecting from the engine, not at the connector because it is hard to take apart the wiring.

Good luck.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:38 pm

hey Rednaxs, thanks for this information, especially about the wire connectors. next question........is it possible to lower the engine down a little once i get all the engine mount bolts off so i can see the wires easier? i already have the floorboards, engine case bars, exhaust, battery/box, air box, reserve coolant tank and fuel filter off. its too hot here to be working inside my garage without any air circulating, so what ever i have to do i need to do it before noon. it was 98* here at 12 pm and i had to stop working on it. tomorrow im draining and removing the radiator, draining the oil and filter.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:49 pm

Stuart - here goes, hope my memory serves me well.

You have to:

1. remove the clutch slave from the rear case
2. remove rad, timing covers, upper and lower engine rad hose connections (makes for easier engine removal)
3. remove the forward heat shield (this is the one that fits around the upper rad hose connection)
4. remove the forward upper engine mount bracket - to get at the upper bolts holding this mount on, best to have the air breather unit removed - hope you have small hands
5. disconnect the oil pressure switch wire from engine sensor and pull forward out of the way (stays with bike)
6. disconnect fuel pump and move fuel pump out of way (stays with bike)
7. disconnect PG pickup from engine and pull forward out of way (stays with bike)
8. disconnect engine gear select wire (lower right hand side of engine) from plug under the false tank (comes out with the engine)
9. disconnect stator wires
10. disconnect fan switch sensor and coolant temp sensor and move out of way (stays on bike)
11. disconnect Ns sensor (timing belt covers need to come off) - stays with bike

Once you have the engine ready to come out, shimmy it forward and pull it out the left side. May have to shim the engine on the stand to get the right side exhaust studs clear of the frame. You cannot drop the engine down to get it out.

Recommend you replace the exhaust studs on install. Makes it so much easier to do work later.

When you remove the rear case, clutch cover comes off as well, there will be a lot of oil in it. Just saying - makes a mess when you are not ready for this.

My fuel shut off valve leaked when I turned it to off so I took it apart and with a new o-ring, put it back together and it no longer leaks and works well.

So to answer your question, you cannot drop the engine to take it out. Standing by for more queries.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:21 pm

omg, thats a lot to disconnect. im gonna print this all out and take it outside to my garage in the morning so i can start fresh. timing covers are already off. the exhaust manifold stud nuts came off without any problems. i've removed them a few times already so they are not a problem. air breather is already off and stored in the bike's trunk along with the mounting bracket and screws. can the clutch slave be removed before the motor is off the frame? stator wires may be a problem. the person that worked on it soldered and heat shrunk them together. i guess i'll have to cut them to get them apart. along with the stator wires, also soldered and heat shrunk are the reg/rec wires, and the solenoid wires. other than removing the fuse block and the connectors that are near them, are there any other connectors that have to come apart near and above the radiator?

when you say PG sensor and Ns sensor, what are they and where are they located?

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:37 pm

Actually it sounds worse than it actually is.

The clutch slave has to come off before engine can be removed. Disconnect from engine and pull out on right side of bike and secure out of way. If you are not going to work/rebuild the clutch slave, you might want to consider taking the clutch lever off, or secure it so that you don't inadvertently depress it while the clutch slave is off the engine.

The RR wires and solenoid wires are not an issue for engine removal. Everything I read about the stator wires when I soldered them (before the alt mod) mentioned this as a down the road issue. Some owners have not soldered these wires, instead they have renewed the connector-sealed with dielectric grease and monitor. Just another option.

The exhaust has to be out of the way to use a jack/lift to get the engine out. I removed the side stand to help get the exhaust out from under the bike.

Other than the few connectors to be removed because the wires go with the engine, or to facilitate getting at items, there are no other connectors to play with.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:49 pm

im sorry, i had to take my neighbor to the store...........understood about the clutch slave cylinder as that was another question i had. i guess i can cut the wires from the stator and get 3 waterproof male/female connectors to reconnect them.

after i get all this motor work done and before i put the saddlebags back on im doing a F/D and driveshaft swap out. the one thats on the bike now has a "whining" noise when i decelerate. i bought a F/D and shaft from an 85 LTD, but i have to call mother Honda first to see about that recall i read about in another posting to see if there's a way i can tell if this one i want to install has been recall fixed.

thank you very much for all this information. hopefully this will be an easy removal and replacement.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:15 pm

I'm going to rebuild the FD on mine this coming February - new bearings and seals. Hoping that this will bring the bike that much closer to new as possible - the purpose of a refurbishment. Haven't been able to locate a new u-joint as yet, can always keep looking.

Always glad to help.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:01 am

here are a few that i found on ebay......http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... t&_sacat=0


this one appears to have a new u joint installed into the yoke............http://www.ebay.com/itm/84-87-HONDA-GOL ... wT&vxp=mtr maybe you can get it and press the joint out of it and install it into your shaft's yoke.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:56 am

ok, first major obstacle.......now that i have the exhaust system on the ground, how the heck do i get it out from under the bike. its wedged between the frame and the swing arm. do i have to remove the rear wheel?

please don't tell me i have to take the swing arm off.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rednaxs60 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:15 am

Morning Stuart - you do not have to remove the swing arm if you don't want to. I found it easier all round to do so. Yes the rear wheel has to come off, I could not see any other way. I also mentioned removing the side stand as well. The other way to do it is to disconnect the muffler from the exhaust pipes, but this brings in another issue of the connector between the two being in good shape, or not, and the clamps can be an issue, or the bolts could be less than stellar. I'd take the rear wheel off.

Once the rear wheel is off, and in my case the swing arm was out as well (not a lot of work and really easy to do) the rear of the engine is easy to work on to get bits off such as the clutch slave. It als makes it easier to use an impact wrench on the engine support bolts. I had to get a drift/punch in to move the rear lower bolts as they were corroded in place.

It will come together, don't rush yourself.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:50 am

Rednaxs60 wrote:Morning Stuart - you do not have to remove the swing arm if you don't want to. I found it easier all round to do so. Yes the rear wheel has to come off, I could not see any other way. I also mentioned removing the side stand as well. The other way to do it is to disconnect the muffler from the exhaust pipes, but this brings in another issue of the connector between the two being in good shape, or not, and the clamps can be an issue, or the bolts could be less than stellar. I'd take the rear wheel off.

Once the rear wheel is off, and in my case the swing arm was out as well (not a lot of work and really easy to do) the rear of the engine is easy to work on to get bits off such as the clutch slave. It also makes it easier to use an impact wrench on the engine support bolts. I had to get a drift/punch in to move the rear lower bolts as they were corroded in place.

It will come together, don't rush yourself.

Cheers


'morning Rednaxs. well, i really didn't want to remove the center stand, but if i can i will. the side stand/frame is off as are the plenum boot bolts for the injectors, the fuel pump and fuel filter are disconnected from the motor/brackets, and the radiator. i have all the mounting screws and bolts to everything so far in labeled individual plastic zip lock baggies. i have to take the rear wheel off anyway to get to the F/D and d/shaft. other than the exhaust system was the lower front engine bolt. since i put new floorboards on it i had to get a threaded rod to make it longer so it was a little difficult to remove it from the motor and frame. im going to raise up the rear and put jack stands under the bottoms of the saddlebag brackets to keep the back up so i can make removing the back wheel a little easier.

i just finished my brunch/lunch and am going back to my garage to get more accomplished before it gets too hot.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rednaxs60 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:05 am

Stuart - you don't have to remove the centre stand - leave it on. When I took the engine out of mine, took me five days and about 15 hours. Took my time and didn't rush it. I felt good if I got a couple of things done and didn't break anything. Do you have the electrical and supplement manuals for your bike. I have these electronically for mine and can send what I have if you like. I believe I have your email. Will send via wetransfer. Have SEi info as well.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:42 am

well, its a good thing im swapping out the F/D. after removing the right side shock mount bolt, i found that the outer ear where the bolt slides thru it was broken off. it might have been broken all this time or when i had the rear tire changed, the service tech broke it and didn't say anything about it thinking i'd never notice it being broken off.

i do have the electronic supplemental service manual for the SEi. i can forget about taking the muffler off of the header pipes as the heat shield screws and the clamp bolts are seized to it so rather than break anything on it, im gonna try to remove it without taking it apart. i might be able to slide it out now that the rear wheel is off.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rednaxs60 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:18 am

When I replaced the muffler on my bike, I had to replace the short extension on the end of the exhaust pipe that fits into the muffler. It's not a simple install of these as the angles are different for each side. The exhaust rings, and clamps are still available, but if your exhaust system is in good nick, just slide it out as one piece.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:12 pm

i can't slide it out from under the bike. its wedged in solid with the center stand. no matter what angle i try, it won't budge. im done for the day. its already almost 90* here and in my garage its even hotter, so i'll start back on it early tomorrow morning. i've already gone thru 12 bottles of water and 3 T shirts from sweating. i cant do no more today. im not gonna risk having a heat stroke or a heart attack just to get this bike apart. tomorrow is another day.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rednaxs60 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:31 pm

I had the same issue. If your situation is like mine, it is the centre stand spring that is the issue. I had to wiggle and **** the exhaust system so that the right side was lower than the left.

Good luck.
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Ernest

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:43 pm

well, maybe i can remove the spring from the center stand and fiddle it around to get it out from under the bike. i have whats called a "brake spring removal" tool i can use to get the spring off and put it back on again once i have the motor back onto the frame, but thats gonna be a couple of months.

im not going to rush thru the repairs on this bike. just like my other one, i dont care if it takes 4-6 months to get everything bought and put onto the motor. i have my black bike i can use for the rest of this riding season, just as long as my other one is ready for next season, thats all im concerned about at the moment. at least i can start out next season with new tires and brakes on it. the tires and brakes that are on it now have less than 500 miles on them so i know they will be ok for next year.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:01 am

EUREKA, THE MOTOR IS ON THE GROUND!!!!!! lol. FINALLY got the motor off the frame. as i was trying to get the exhaust system out of the way, the bike fell off the 2 jack stands onto its right side :o. i was able to get it back upright again, and when i moved my bike lift to reposition it, the bike fell over onto its left side :x. so i got it back upright again, (with a lot of choice four letter words), and while i was attempting to move the front exhaust pipes i noticed that the left front pipe was loose inside the front muffler connector, so i took my trusty "persuader" (hammer) and "gently" ( :twisted:) tapped the front pipe out of the muffler coupler. now the engine is sitting on the ground and im waiting for one of my friends to come over so we can pick it up and put it on my work table.

once i remove the rear cover i'll take some pics of what i find inside.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:03 pm

well, here are some photos of what i have accomplished so far. first pic is of the rear of the bike with nothing on it except for the 2 jack stands i have under the saddlebag bars. the 2nd pic is of the left front exhaust pipe that i was able to remove from the muffler. the 3rd is the come-a-long connected to the motor and i was able to raise the motor up with my come-a-long by wrapping a chain around my 6x6 beam in my garage and putting the long rear upper engine mount bolt back onto the motor and using 1 front upper engine mount bolt i connected them to the come-a-long and ratcheted the engine up and the 4th is of the motor resting onto my little work table. the same table i used when i was working on my 1100 motor.

BTW Rednasx, i had to leave the clutch slave attached to the casing. i couldn't get to the bolts because the center stand was in the way so i removed the hydraulic line to it and screwed the banjo bolt back into the slave cylinder so i wouldn't lose it.

now tomorrow morning i can start pulling the rear case apart to see what the story is with the starter clutch and other parts.

stuart.
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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rednaxs60 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:55 pm

Good on the removal. A bit unorthodox, and in good shade tree mechanic fashion, not in accordance with, but hey, it's done. Look forward to hearing more.

If you can on install, borrow or get one of the floor stands that is used to raise the bike off the ground, makes the job go that much easier. Here is a picture similar to what I used.


Look forward to more pictures and hearing about your work.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:24 pm

well, i don't have a garage thats equipped like a auto or a bike shop, i do what i can do with what i have to work with. i have that exact same bike jack/lift. thats what i used to raise the back of the bike up after i unbolted the shocks and had to raise it up high enough to slide the 2 jack stands under the saddlebag mounts to pull out the rear wheel and final drive and shaft that you see in one of the pics. it did make it a little easier.

i got lucky when i was able to hammer the left front exhaust header pipe out of the exhaust system. i didn't use any of my air tools. everything was taken apart with hand tools only. only major problem i had is when the bike slid off the jack stands onto its right side. i was able to pick it up off the ground, and it then slid off and fell over on its left side. glad it didn't break anything.

there was a few hoses and relays that i had to disconnect, but i marked them so i shouldn't have any trouble reconnecting them once im ready to put the motor back onto the frame.

once i open the rear casing up, i'll take a few pics of what i found when i get everything apart. im sure i'll find a mess inside the casing.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby Rusty Bike » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:44 pm

Wow, glad you didn't get hurt. I would freek if my bike fell over!

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:11 pm

Rusty Bike wrote:Wow, glad you didn't get hurt. I would freek if my bike fell over!


well, i was more PO'ed at myself for letting it happen. i was behind the bike pulling on the tail pipes and hit the right side jack stand and it just fell over slowly and gently. and when i picked it up, it fell over the other way because both jack stands slid out from under it and i was trying to balance it by myself and trying to get the jack stand back under it at the same time. even though i had the motor unbolted and hanging there, the motor is what stopped it from going all the way over. if i had the rear wheel still on it when it fell, i wouldn't have been able to lift it back upright. once i got it back up, i set the bottom end of the swing arm on the ground, then i used my bike jack/lift to raise it back up again so i could slide the jack stands back under it. the hard part will come once i get the motor ready to slide back onto the frame. i think im gonna need some help with that part of this job.

stuart.

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Re: 85 SEi engine removal

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:57 am

ok, this morning was off to a good start. i was able to remove the rear engine case without any problems. as you can see, in the first pic are all the rear cover bolts numbered and labeled so as not to confuse them when reinstalling them. i also labeled the corresponding bolt holes on the main engine case with waterproof magic marker so they won't disappear. the 2nd pic shows the inside of the rear casing which to my surprise is nice and clean, no metallic shavings at all. the 3rd pic shows the stator inside the rear cover which to me looks nice and clean and no burned wires. it looks to have been replaced once before, so im not going to mess with it. whats that old saying? "if it ain't broke, dont fix it" lol. this stator while running was putting out 15.7 @3,000 rpm, so thats good enough for me.

now here's where i have a question. as you can see in pic 4, the flywheel has a bolt and a large nut on it. does the bolt have to be removed along with the large nut to remove the flywheel to get to the starter clutch?

pic 5 shows the starter clutch and chain, (of what you can see of it). i spun the motor by hand and looked at the timing belt marks, and they line up perfectly with both pulley arrows at TDC. only other problem is when i spun the motor, i could hear the starter making that GOD awful grinding sound so it looks like im gonna have to buy another starter because i dont think the mfg will warranty this one.

stuart.
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