Charging/electrical issue


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Charging/electrical issue

Postby Saintjude33 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:20 am



So I did the stator and R/R last fall, and I'm still having some issues. I also did a starter rebuild last month, but not helping. I have a couple issues I need some help with.

I bought this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STATOR-REGULATO ... 43b4239272

Hoping to fix it last year, bad charging system. I did the test on the yellow wires for continuity, the old one failed, but the new one is still good. I also did the solid solder job on them and added in the Electrical Connections conversion kit.

I'm getting good continuity on the three yellows now, but still having charging issues. I took a close look at the R/R that I bought- no black wire.....what does that mean? Should I go back and get a R/R with a black lead?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rectifier-Regul ... 5b272e1080

Issue #2- if I go for say a 50 mile ride, when I shut the bike down it won't start up again. The LCD screen flashes and the starter won't spin. Dying starter? Like I said, I just pulled it off and rebuilt it.

I also did the fuse conversion, but I see a manufactured solenoid that has it built in- any thoughts on this? I thought about replacing the solenoid and all of the heavy gauge battery-involved wiring-some corrosion on them, so new probably wouldn't hurt.

That's the list for today- let me know if anyone has any thoughts/suggestions



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Rednaxs60
Posts: 725
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Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD, 2008 GL1800

Re: Charging/electrical issue

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:06 am

The black wire on the second RR is the sensing wire that feeds the battery charge level back to the RR to regulate how much charge is being put out to the battery.

The wiring for the 1200 RR joins the 2 green-ground wires into one when these wires enter the wiring harness, grounding the RR circuits.

The red wires (should be red with white stripe) from the RR are also joined into one wire just after these wires enter the wiring harness and go to the starter solenoid, but also join to the red wire from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch in the wiring harness. What this does is use the power from the stator directly for bike operation. This has been done to minimize size of the stator and battery. When the bike is operating the battery essentially becomes a load sink and takes residual stator power not needed for bike operation.

When you start and idle your bike, you should be getting say 12 VDC to the battery and the battery is being used to supplement the power requirement to operate the bike. As you increase the RPM, the voltage output from the stator/RR should increase. If this is happening the charge system is working as it should. The only difference will be that the RR is not sensing the battery voltage; however, the RR that you have purchased could be using the red wires for battery sensing, don't know.

If your LCD dash is flashing after a 50 mile ride with the battery being at full charge when starting out, The bike is operating on the battery with minimal charge from the stator. IMHO the starter is not the issue.

Check the charging of the battery when at idle and then as you increase RPM. The voltage should increase up to approximately 14.2 VDC at 3000 to 5000 RPM. If this does not happen then you have an issue from the RR. The next step I would recommend is to check the power coming from the stator when the bike is running.

Stator Test

1- First, put the bike on the centerstand. Cut the wires on both sides of the stator connector plug. Strip the insulation aprox. 1/2"-1" back on all three yellow wires. Label each wire A, B, and C.

2- With a multimeter, digital or analog, set to read resistance, check each leg to ground for short's. If no short's are found, (o resistance), you're good to go so far.

3- With the meter set to read resistance, check across each leg. A to B, B to C, then C to A. The reading's should be about 3 ohm's. If you read infinite resistance across any of the legs you have an open winding and the stator is bad. If they read good, keep going.

4- A helper is good to have for this next step. With the battery fully charged and the three yellow wire's separated so they cannot make contact, crank the bike. Have your helper rev the bike to 3000rpm after the bike warm's up.

IMPORTANT!!!

You are checking for AC voltage NOT DC voltage!! Make sure the meter is set to read a minimum of 120vac!!

With the bike at 3000rpm, check leg A to B. Note the voltage.

Then check leg B to C. Note the voltage.

Finaly check leg C to A. Note the voltage.

Compare the three readings. They should be between 50-70vac plus or minus about 5vac per leg. If they read good, chances are you've got a bad regulator.

Here is the Ken Chapin 3 part stator test for a GL1200:

http://iwing.org/Tech%20info/testingstator.htm

You have already " done step 1 , and since you have not soldered ( yet ) #2 is easy
( I would have to unsolder my Linemans splices ! )

Part one :
in step #3: AC voltage test between each A-B , B-C, and C-A should give 50 to 75 volts AC on each pair
( This is the most important test : Ditch the stator if it doesn't pass this step )

Part Two :
as in step #5 :Good continuity on each leg A-B , B-C, and C-A with ohmmeter at 1 ohm
and finally Part Three :
High resistance between each of A , B , and C to ground of stator case .

-----------------------------------------
so Three tests :
50 volts AC per pair, low resistance on each pair , and high resistance to ground .
---------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
The reg/rect test is a little more complex .. This is from the Clymer manual :

Positive Ohmmeter to a yellow and negative to a green ...... continuity ?
Reverse Ohmmeter leads to same and repeat last step ... no continuity ?
then
Positive Ohmmeter lead to red/white , negative to Yellow ... Continuity ?
Reverse Ohmmeter leads and repeat last step ... no continuity ?

I found that a digital ohmmeter doesn' t do this very well, I bought and used an analogue ohmmeter and it worked.

Probably a lot of repetition of what you already have.

Good luck.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Charging/electrical issue

Postby Saintjude33 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:43 pm

I have already done the cut-and-solder at the 3 yellow wire junction. The Electrical Connections harness makes you do that. It also has me cut out a section of the RR and hard wire in some other stuff.

I'll get on the meter after work today and post my findings for your perusal later on. Thanks for the help.

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Charging/electrical issue

Postby Saintjude33 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:23 am

So a little cut-and-paste from Ken-

1. check the ACG coupler for discoloration, which indicates overheating and it is faulty. This is the connector to the immediate left of the battery and consists of 3 yellow wires. If the connector is found to be discolored and/or brittle from overheating, an ACG Coupler Repair Kit (Part # 31105-ML8-305) is available from your local HONDA dealer. Ensure that the coupler is well packed with dielectric grease. An alternative is to remove the coupler altogether and ?hardwire/solder? the yellow wires together. This method is also acceptable but does make future testing somewhat difficult and would require cutting of the wiring. I've actually already done the cut-and solder part, popped the Electrical Connections harness in last month.



4. if the test indicates 50 Volts A.C. voltage or more from each pair (or phase), the Stator does not require replacement. However, if either pair of wires does show less than 50 Volts of A.C. voltage, replace the Stator. My meter(digital) has sharp probes, so I'm able to poke them through the insulation and wrap a little electrical tape back around it when done. I'm getting 7-9 volts AC from each leg pair, so it looks like the stator is crapped out.

So it looks like I got nothing left to do but pull the motor- I did this last fall, are there ANY recommendations for a particular brand of stator? Is there testing I can do for the RR to make sure it's ok before I buy one and not the other?

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wilmo
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Re: Charging/electrical issue

Postby wilmo » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:53 am

If you've disconnected the stator from the R/R then yes, you need a stator, but if you've just poked the wires and left the R/R connected then, no that is not the correct procedure. They must be disconnected from each other (no load on the stator) to get correct voltage values.

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Charging/electrical issue

Postby Saintjude33 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:04 pm

That's good to know- it was done with the R/R still connected. Not sure how much spare wiring I have- might just use bullet connectors on it instead. Crimp and pop

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Rednaxs60
Posts: 725
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Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD, 2008 GL1800

Re: Charging/electrical issue

Postby Rednaxs60 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:33 pm

Others have put new connectors of various kinds on the yellow wires and used dielectric grease to water seal. The issue with the connector(s) is that it corrodes and gets dirty, impairing the functionality. If you do use bullet connectors, just make sure that cleaning becomes part of your maintenance for the charging system. You may be able to route the wires from the stator to give some slack as well.

God luck.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Charging/electrical issue

Postby Saintjude33 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:12 am

What is the opinion of putting something more permanent in the connector- solid silicone or even RTV? Makes the easy connector permanent.

Saintjude33
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: Central CT
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 Aspencade with sidecar
1989 Yamaha XV250 Virago, Route 66 model

Re: Charging/electrical issue

Postby Saintjude33 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:54 pm

I just cut the three wires and clipped on some bullet connectors on it. I checked the voltage and came up with 41, 39, and 33 volts. This seems way too low- any thoughts?

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Rednaxs60
Posts: 725
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD, 2008 GL1800

Re: Charging/electrical issue

Postby Rednaxs60 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:39 pm

Everything I've read indicates that if the VAC between windings (A-C, B-C, A-B) is not 50 VAC or better, the stator is defective. I pulled my stator and installed an external alternator. Also removed the charging system wiring.

Cheers


"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest


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