Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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gervais
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:49 am
Location: riviere-bleue,quebec,canda
Motorcycle: GoldWing 1984 GL1200A Aspencade

Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by gervais » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:34 am



hi all
well first Best 2018 too everyone,

i have been working on my cable harness of my GW lately (winter time here) too improove the charging stability AND the voltage.

i changed 2 cables that goes on the starter relay for #10 gauge and they dont get as hot as before so something has improoved.

my OEM V/Regulator is the Shindengen SH541-12 3.6. and this moment i have 14.8 to 14.9 vdc AT the battery when it charging and the monitoring Black Cable is 1 vdc less .

i baught on Ebay a replacement for the OEM voltage/rectifier : MZS E-045 and i dont have connected it yet,anybody have tried them?
if so are you still around 14.8-14.9 vdc?


years ago i have a similar problem on a skiddo that was blowing his headlights because of a volatge/regulator that was way too high on voltage and i wonder if i have the same probleme here.


i receive many help here from different members and i thanks them ,it is really appreciated.

normally i should have between 13.8 to 14.2,,,4 vdc before it become hard on the battery so i am searching a solution.

thanks and i am waiting you appreciations and experiences


gervais
riviere-bleue
quebec



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Rednaxs60
Posts: 1549
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD (X2), 2008 GL1800 (sold)

Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by Rednaxs60 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:14 pm

The black sense wire that is connected to the electrical system after the ignition switch is probably less than the ~14.2 VDC reference voltage of the regulator. The voltage regulator uses this sense wire voltage to determine the voltage/current output to the electrical system.

If the voltage on the sense wire is less than the reference voltage, say 12.5 to 13.0 VDC then the regulator output will be the reference voltage of ~14.2 VDC plus the difference between the reference voltage and the voltage on the sense wire, in this case 1.2 VDC. The regulator will put out 14.2 VDC plus 1.2 VDC for a total of 15.4 VDC until the system stabilizes at the reference voltage (if it ever does).

This sense wire is a key element in the operation of the regulator. It has been mentioned to connect this sense wire directly to the battery. This was and is done on less expensive/quality regulators, and the design engineers determined that it was better to move the sense wire to a connection point after the ignition switch to ensure that corrosion and the likes did not affect the sense voltage. Having mentioned this, I would like to recommend an alternate solution for the sense wire that will probably provide a better sense voltage.

There is a power junction/splice/join in the wire harness where the red-white wire from the regulator to the starter solenoid and the red wire from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch are joined. This join is located in the wire harness directly below the gas fill in the harness - quite easy to find. When you locate this junction, join the sense wire to this location and you will get a more exact electrical system voltage reading going back to the regulator.

The reason I mention to connect the sense wire at this location is that once the battery has been replenished back to a 100% state of charge, 99% of the power generated goes to servicing the load on the bike through this connection. It is like a water system, turn the tap off going to the battery and the power has to go through the ignition switch to the electrical system. This schematic illustrates how the OEM wiring harness is connected, shows the junction between the red and red-white wires as well:


Just a few thoughts on your issue and is MHO.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

gervais
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:49 am
Location: riviere-bleue,quebec,canda
Motorcycle: GoldWing 1984 GL1200A Aspencade

Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by gervais » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:50 pm

Bonjour Rednaxs60,

thanks for your response,i am still on my cable job ,i have found the joint you are talking about and welded a #10 cable to the starter relay and the other cable too (check the pictures).i have put a number on each cable too.they are out of the OEM harness and will be covered by a special tubing for that.

i will moove the sense 12 vdc cable at this joint,i did not do it ,,,i missed it sorry.

i will let you know what is the result after i tranfer the sense wire btw,i checked on the right side of the fairing near the compressor compatiment where there are 2 square connectors:thats where the BLACK sense wire leads,i disconnect the plug,,,man there was dirty connections.some sort of corrosion that need to me scrub by a pieces of smooth sand paper to clean the "contact".i will bring them back and just apply a special grease i have here .

after that,,,time to changed the cam strap

thanks
Gef
Attachments

joint under the tape
joint under the tape


moto on working table
moto on working table


oem splice
oem splice


#12 and#14 splice together and #12 that leads out bad
#12 and#14 splice together and #12 that leads out bad


#10 changed on the starter relay to replace the other
#10 changed on the starter relay to replace the other


along the frame before they are covered
along the frame before they are covered


welded
welded


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Rednaxs60
Posts: 1549
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD (X2), 2008 GL1800 (sold)

Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by Rednaxs60 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:58 pm

Glad I could be of help.

Another thought I have, and one that I have tried and incorporated on my '85 LTD in Victoria is that you only need one 10/12 GA wire from the junction/joint to the starter solenoid. It doesn't matter how many wires you have going to the starter solenoid, if the battery does not require topping up because it is at a 100% state of charge, no current is going to flow through any wire except a trickle charge. If the voltage from the regulator output to the junction/joint is less than battery voltage, the battery will provide current to the system to supplement the alternator output, and the voltage in the system will reflect that of the battery at the junction/joint.

This is slightly different on the '85 LTD and '86 SEi in that these bikes have a wire connected at the battery post of the starter solenoid going to the main relay and a couple of others. Even so, a 10/12 GA one wire to the starter solenoid is sufficient for operation.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

gervais
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:49 am
Location: riviere-bleue,quebec,canda
Motorcycle: GoldWing 1984 GL1200A Aspencade

Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by gervais » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:06 am

well
i tested tonight a jumper between the Black sense cable FROM the rectifier connected at the junction and the charge volatage at the batterie was 14.2 ,,14.3 which is way better to me than 14.9 or 15vdc .the battery will damage less because of this high voltage.

this junction as 12vdc DIRECT ,i wonder if the regulator "will damaged" if always feed with constant volatage or i could install a Bosh relay so when i start the regulator sense wire will be feed in 12vdc???

a OEM Bosh relay is durable.

i install #10 gauge cable and the dont heat at all like the OEM in cable harness of the GW,the move for the #10 was no1 to me.

when installing the direct 12 vdc feed at the SENSE cable,i will check if regulator is getting hot as before.


thanks for the return
Gervais

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by Rednaxs60 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:22 am

Good information regarding the black sense wire move to the junction. I will be doing that to the '85 LTD at my brother's place as well. The existing location (described below) and moving to the battery are good, but I think this is the best one to do.

It has been mentioned on this forum and the others that the wiring used is the minimum size to get the job done without compromising safety. It is not designed to have additional devices added to the wiring. A larger gauge wire never hurts.

I have looked at the schematic in the electrical troubleshooting manual for the LTD setup of this sense wire. It comes off fuse #5 - IGN. This is the same fuse for the wire going to the engine stop switch. The engine stop switch provides power to the ignition coils, fuel pump shut off sensor, and the CFI main relay to name a few. These are power uses that affect the voltage reading that the regulator is provided with.

The OEM wiring has the sense wire on a fuse, so the sense wire is not powered when the bike is turned off. A relay on this new sense wire connection would maintain the design intent, only on when key turned on. You can use the original sense wire going to the regulator to trigger the relay. Good suggestion.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

gervais
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:49 am
Location: riviere-bleue,quebec,canda
Motorcycle: GoldWing 1984 GL1200A Aspencade

Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by gervais » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:31 pm

"You can use the original sense wire going to the regulator to trigger the relay"
that i did not thaught about it,,great.

One more thinh i will install on the dash a "pilot light" to be sure that 12vdc is apply at the new sense regulator circuit,,i have one green here somewhere that will do the job.
To resume ,the OEM sense circuit is not so accurate that it forced the regulator too over charge by .8-1.2 vdc over the normal rate and that why i saw 14.8 and even 15.0 dc ON the battery and that is way to much.On the long term the plate inside the battery will damaged a lot,electrolyte will evaporate and it will sulfate after a while,,,if i recall my years in mecanic.

it seems that Honda continued the same design in 85 and 86 as you said,great idea to modify right now than.the previous owner add 2 driving light installed (?) 55 watts each x2 =110 watt at 12vdc= 10+ amps easy and you did not saw thecable he used ,,,it must be #14 NO FUSE at all.i will install 2 Led Driving lights if i can see a bargain somewhere on Amazon.i dont need Fog lights.


73 Ernest
Best 2018 too you and yours

gervais
riviere-bleue

gervais
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:49 am
Location: riviere-bleue,quebec,canda
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Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by gervais » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:26 pm

hi ernest,
just a follow up!

you can see the relais i added and a fuse in case ,the relay is activated BY the black alimentation from the switch so when i turn on the srte switch the relay is activated .
Also i added a fan (from a cpu) that i add here too cool the rectifier diode,it is getting so hot and inside the "hood" of the GW thatere is not much fresh air so it will help,the fan is activated BY the relay .

i am almost done for the electrical.
i will make an harness for a new set of Led Driving lights and after ,,
camshaft strap et the adapter for the pulley on the crank.i will installed a pulley in case the alternator blow later.


best 2018 ernest
thanks
gervais
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relay
relay


cpu fan on the rectifier
cpu fan on the rectifier


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Ghostt
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Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by Ghostt » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:16 pm

Has anyone here converted the Shunt style R/R to the MOSFET style R/R? I have done this on my other bikes, but not my Wing.

Was looking for some info about how they did theirs, etc....

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by Rednaxs60 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:07 pm

If you are asking about changing from the OEM shunt type regulator/rectifier unit to a series regulator/rectifier unit, there are many examples of this on this and other forums - Roadster Cycle has a series unit that has been well received.

There is also a Compufire 55402 that has been used on a 1200.

These series units are more expensive than the shunt type regulators.

Cheers
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"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

gervais
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:49 am
Location: riviere-bleue,quebec,canda
Motorcycle: GoldWing 1984 GL1200A Aspencade

Re: Voltage/ regulator on a GL1200 1984 ?

Post by gervais » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:01 pm

Ghostt wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:16 pm
Has anyone here converted the Shunt style R/R to the MOSFET style R/R? I have done this on my other bikes, but not my Wing.

Was looking for some info about how they did theirs, etc....
well,with what i did,14.4 vdc at 4000 rpm.
and steady,
what i learn so far ,the game is the "sense" wire as Ernest said somewhere,,OEM it is bad located,bad connected.i changed it and it worked.
i install a CPU fan on the OEM Rectifier but ,,,it seems of not getting so hot has he was ,,i will disconnected and see.

Gervais



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