Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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Rednaxs60
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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Rednaxs60 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:35 am



If you still have the front fairing on, you might want to consider taking it off. four bolts - two to the frame and two at the steering stem, disconnect the wiring harness and lift it off. Recommend having help. Once it is off lots of access to everything forward. Makes it a lot easier.

Cheers


"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Afraziaaaa
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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:10 pm

Got the angle sensor out. Needed about another 3 inches to get to the actual connector.

Need the lock nut tool to remove the neck/trees. The one I have is too large. Maybe for GL1800...?

Pulled radiator and water pump cover. Looks like too much play in the water pump. I think I will replace it. Probably why the bike kept getting hot, consistently almost at the top of the temp gauge.





Timing belts look ok. They are Honda belts. I have new belts, tensioners and thermostat. Thermostat sensor(?) wire insulation is pretty brittle. I’m in there and by the looks of things probably won’t be riding this bike for a while. I’d like to do something about the insulation, but not sure how to pull the sensor out of the housing.

The pulse generator looks like it is in good shape, but I should probably actually test it before I go pulling good parts off the bike. I’m operating on assumptions and A WAG, so I hesitate to do it just yet.

Pulled the radiator too and the hoses were in good shape, but near impossible to get off, so I cut them off and will replace.

Cleaned up the timing belt cover a bit. Not polished but I did use a wire brush to remove the corrosion.

Second pic down is the radiator fan male end. Not sure what is going on there, but the fan does work.



















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Rednaxs60
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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Rednaxs60 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:06 pm

Good pictures and progress. I have to ask, I don't see a trigger wheel? I also thought that all 1984 models had the pulse generators at the rear of the engine?

I have looked at some of the pics I have saved and the ones from my '85, and the trigger wheel is very prominent. Here is a picture of the trigger wheel installed:


Anyone else notice the difference?

Thinking out loud.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Afraziaaaa
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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:07 pm

I see your arrow in the pic, but I’m not sure what a trigger wheel is exactly. This is an ‘85. I found it on the neck plate and double checked my title and lo and behold I had confused the year of the bike! I’m not sure why I thought it was an ‘84.

I’m not sure how to change the title of the thread or I would.

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by DaveO430 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:46 am

Rednaxs60 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:06 pm
Good pictures and progress. I have to ask, I don't see a trigger wheel? I also thought that all 1984 models had the pulse generators at the rear of the engine?

I have looked at some of the pics I have saved and the ones from my '85, and the trigger wheel is very prominent. Here is a picture of the trigger wheel installed:Old Crank Pulse Sensor.jpg

Anyone else notice the difference?

Thinking out loud.

Cheers
Good catch, that is mysterious.

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Afraziaaaa
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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:51 am

Ok so I educated myself about the trigger wheel. It seems like an option for timing advance. It isn’t standard on the gl1200, is it?

I see a spacer there, but I don’t see any sort of timing advance/trigger wheel on a Honda parts breakdown for this model/year.

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Rednaxs60 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:18 am

In order for the PGs to work need a trigger wheel. For your bike this is used for timing. The ECU has to know whether the crank is turning and where it is. Without this trigger wheel the PG sensors will not indicate anything.

It is not an option for timing, has to be there for the 1985 models. It fits between the two timing belt crank pulleys where P/N 14 is. In the parts fiche it is P/N 3 - top middle of the diagram:


The parts fiche is used for multiple models and years. P/N 14 is for the 1984 year, not the 1985 and up. A little confusing but you get used to it.

Without it you will never get the engine to start.

Just MHO. Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Afraziaaaa
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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:08 am

I’ve ridden the bike more than 1000 miles as is. It must be there, but I’ll have to take a second look!

What site are you using?

This is what I see for items 3,12.



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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Rednaxs60 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:56 am

Afraziaaaa wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:08 am
I’ve ridden the bike more than 1000 miles as is. It must be there, but I’ll have to take a second look!

What site are you using?

This is what I see for items 3,12.

5F881ABD-90EA-4CF1-85CB-4F68B1C91B8C.jpeg
This is the site I use, and the page for your bike: https://www.partspitstop.com/oemparts/a ... iming-belt

P/N 3 is also used to indicate the left timing belt cover. P/N 12 is a spacer as well.

Checked the electrical troubleshooting manual as well. Two PG sensors, one for each coil. Needs a trigger wheel - the manual calls it a pulse generator rotor. When the pulse generator rotor passes the PG sensor, a signal/pulse is sent to the ignition control unit (ICU). Have read that there is a get home mode built in regarding these PG sensors going bad - haven't found this in the manuals.

Timing for your bike in first, second or third varies according to engine speed. In fourth and OD, the gearshift sensor sends a signal to the ICU that varies the timing according to engine vacuum. When the ICU gets a pulse from the PG sensor, the ICU interrupts the primary coil winding ground and a voltage is induced in the secondary coil winding and the spark plug fires. Here is a diagram that illustrates this:


The ICU controls the ground for the coils using the PG sensors as the control element. There has to be something there.

Just brainstorming now. Having mentioned this, and not seeing a trigger wheel where the PG sensors are located, if there hasn't been a wiring mod at the coil to make the engine work - stranger things have happened.

Look forward to your findings.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:08 pm

The trigger wheel has to be there, to excite the pulse generators. Otherwise the ECU has no idea what position the engine crank is at, and therefore doesn't know when to fire the plugs. It can't just "guess" - firing a plug at the wrong point in the cycle (i.e. early in the compression stage) would be disastrous, and could destroy the engine. That's why when a pulse generator fails, the symptom is "engine dies." The ECU sees incorrect or no signal from the pulse generator, and its response is to shut down all spark activity, and the engine quits instantly.

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by julimike54 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:50 pm

The image with the fan; that is an added wire, probably going to an added switch to manually run the fan.
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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by DaveO430 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:30 pm

Look on the back of the engine and see if there is a distributor looking thing (no cap or plug wires) sticking out the back.

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:17 pm

So there is a flag to trigger the PG, but it doesn’t have teeth like the one shown in the diagram. Maybe this is an early 85 model still using the rotor from 84, or an engine/part swap from some other year.



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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Rednaxs60 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:33 pm

You're right. A closer look at the fiche P/N 14 and you see the raised part of the wheel, very subtle but it is there. Learn something every day. Thanks. Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by julimike54 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:34 pm

^^^That'a what mine looks like!
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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:44 pm

Rednaxs60 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:33 pm
You're right. A closer look at the fiche P/N 14 and you see the raised part of the wheel, very subtle but it is there. Learn something every day. Thanks. Cheers
Maybe 12 and 13 are other possible parts that Honda used.

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Rednaxs60 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:01 pm

My '85 LTD has the multi tooth trigger wheel and is for the Ns sensor that is used for timing. The equivalent PG sensors are the Gr/Gl sensors found on the back end of the right cylinder head camshaft for injector timing.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:41 am

Have a bunch of maintenance items and new waterpump on the way. Will open up the forks and inspect them before I order o-rings and gaskets from Honda.

Now my plan is to rebuild front end, water pump and timing belts before pulling the engine and carbs.

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Shadowjack » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:13 am

Carbureted 1200s use the single-lobe trigger wheel. Multi-lobe is needed for EFI.

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:26 am

Shadowjack wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:13 am
Carbureted 1200s use the single-lobe trigger wheel. Multi-lobe is needed for EFI.
Thanks for clarifying!

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:18 pm

An evening of blunder:

Managed to drain the oil out of the bike. There is a pan under there somewhere...


Pretty sure the fork cap has become one with the tube. A 2ft breaker bar couldn’t get it off.


I have an electric impact driver, but I think I’d prefer to use a manual impact driver. I don’t currently have one laying around.

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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by julimike54 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:31 am

How are you keeping the assembly from turning, it almost looks like the cap is dragging on what's below it?

Just removed mine, left it in the triple trees till cap was loose. Torque should be 16 ft./lbs.

Good luck :)
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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:29 pm



Thanks. I had them in a 6” vice bolted to my workbench. No dice so I pulled out the electric impact and had to hit each one three times before it broke loose. Managed to only bust one knuckle while doing it!

I have some usable parts here but won’t be reusing the tubes and probably not the sliders either. I officially dub the previous rebuild “all methed up”. I’ll end up replacing about 50% of major front end components including the wheel.

Fiber and plastic washers disintegrated and one snap ring was unrecognizable. The other ring still has visible holes so I may be able to get it out in a more diplomatic manner. Than the first.

Also found some gasket sealant on both fork dampener/plug bolts. About stripped the socket head getting them out I had to apply so much torque.

I think I can have the front end, water pump and timing belts done in a week.













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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:57 pm

Got the trees apart and pulled the stem/bearings out. Bearings and races looked ok but the grease was nearly dry. The locknut was not even finger tight. Was just spinning freely along with the lock washer. Also, no o-rings on the air equalizer so it makes sense that the front forks wouldn’t hold air.

Also a pic of the progressive spring (front) next to the two piece aspencade setup (rear). Progressive is considerably stiffer, which I will like.





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Re: Project: 1984 Aspencade (GL1200) Revival

Post by Afraziaaaa » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:22 pm

I can’t contain myself, so I polished up one of the timing belt covers. Retains a slight patina but will look nice I think.





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