New noise


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CTInspect
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:17 am
Location: Watertown, CT
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200A Aspencade

New noise

Postby CTInspect » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:21 pm



I just rebuilt the carbs and was setting up the pilot screws when I noticed a hum or low moan from the engine. It starts and stops fairly often and when I hear it start I also notice the dash lights and headlight dim along with it. The lights go back to normal when the noise stops.
My guess is electrical, charging cycle, stator?



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WingAdmin
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Re: New noise

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:30 am

Does the engine RPM change when you hear the noise?

CTInspect
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Location: Watertown, CT
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200A Aspencade

Re: New noise

Postby CTInspect » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:26 pm

Still dont have the carbs right so there is a bit of an RPM bounce.Going nuts trying to set up those pilots.
But the change in RPM does not seem to run with the cycle of the noise and lights.
It seems to be in about 10 sec intervals and runs about 3 sec or so. Im not sure but it seems more frequent than yesterday.
Its late and I will run it again tomorrow and see if it is more frequent and I'll also meter the battery and see what the voltage is doing.

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dingdong
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Re: New noise

Postby dingdong » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:28 am

Could the noise be coming from the electric fuel pump?
Tom

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

CTInspect
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:17 am
Location: Watertown, CT
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200A Aspencade

Re: New noise

Postby CTInspect » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:08 pm

Not the fuel pump, ran the bike, pulled the pump connection.
I have more to check but heres the update, Yes it is getting worse, noise level is the same but the cycle interval is worse, now every few seconds for a few seconds.
I am pretty sure the moan is coming from the casing where the stator is and I believe the sound is the stator being loaded or over loaded by something that may be shorting on a cycle. I have to do some reading on testing the stator, the the rectifier.
The voltages are pretty good, 12+ on the battery, about 13.2/13.4 on idle and mid to upper 13 at higher RPM. BUT, the voltage drags down about 1/2 Volt on that noise cycle. Thats w/digital meter, so the drag could be more.
PO told me the stator was done about 6 years ago, mind you the bike only has 30K. The stator plug was done but the connections are crimps and the wires dont look so good. So along with my reading, I'll be pulling some covers and R&R wires/connections as needed.
So if anyone else has any ideas or thoughts as to what "I think I'm doing"... or should be doing, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
p.s.- PO told me .... but then again the hesitation was a bent Exh valve and the carbs had never been touched and it got 25MPG so I dont really believe him.

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dingdong
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Re: New noise

Postby dingdong » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:22 am

My next step would be to check the main ground cable for corroded connector. Do you know for sure if the battery is good. Your voltages seem to be a bit low. At higher rpm you should have around 14+ volts.
What do you mean about the PO and a bent valve and hesitation?
Tom

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

CTInspect
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:17 am
Location: Watertown, CT
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200A Aspencade

Re: New noise

Postby CTInspect » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:31 am

I just need to go thru the service manual, find the suspected connections and then go after them. The upper 13v levels i mentioned were on a digital meter and also at less than 2000rpm so I am probaly fine for 14+.
I dont want to run the bike more (since it seems to be getting worse) until I check wiring and connection, first I have to find them. Then I will crank it up and test the stator, then the rect/reg. I put a load test on the battery after it was charged, its fine.
To much in my head at once ....

PO- Previous Owner told me the stator was done, but he also told me the carbs were done (never were), that the hesitation was adjustments (it was bad valve from when the belts went and he got it running good enough to stick me with it)
just dont know what to believe. But I will be better at my next GW purchase.

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virgilmobile
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Re: New noise

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:49 am

I,m not a 1200 owner,however I may be able to help.If the you suspect the noise is electrical loading on the stator,unplug it,restart the bike.It will run without it hooked up(it wont charge of course)and this will verify this is a electrical problem and not mechanical.If this is true then something is cycling on and off.Pull all the fuses except what is needed to run the bike(ign and fuel)noise still there? if yes it's in that circuit.if not plug in one fuse at a time.something will show up.(automatic circuits...headlight flasher?air ride?
Virgil

CTInspect
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Re: New noise

Postby CTInspect » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:27 pm

To think that I am from Elec Eng background, yes engineer, we always take the long way around, But I like your direct approach much better !!!!
I guess if I start w/stator disconnected (after I charge the Batt), your right, that should point me in the right direction. I think I'll check continuity first, since the problem is getting worse with every run. Then the output also when I start it wo the stator.
I guess the best place to disconnect it would be at those lousy crimps that were done to get rid of the plugs. the old, 2 birds with one Big Rock ....
I dont want to run longer than I have to until I repair wires and connections that I can already see, they worry me.
Its gonna be cold this W/E, so now I have something to do. Or I could ride my
Opps, Cavalcade
Thanks Virgil

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virgilmobile
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Re: New noise

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:03 pm

Go for it.Post if you have a question.45 years electronics I read schematics like comics.Virgil

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TDarby719
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Re: New noise

Postby TDarby719 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:25 pm

virgilmobile wrote: I read schematics like comics.Virgil


Thought most schematics were pretty comical to look at. LOL.

CTInspect
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Re: New noise/stator/elec sys

Postby CTInspect » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:09 am

Stator testing in the service manuals tests the continuity between or to ground and voltage between.
Posted somewhere in here was starting the bike, then pull the wires and test voltage and resistance.
? Do I really want to do that? resistance on "hot" legs, or even pull wires with 50vac on them?
By the book sounds safer? Ive worked on many electric motors& controllers, never would I test like that. Maybe a 2nd resistance test after the bike is hot, for break down of the coils, or even use a megar to test the stator.
Am I right? Stick with the book and my thinking, or "hot"

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: New noise

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:24 pm

The book referring to the testing method of the stator is ok.I'm trying to determine if the noise is mechanical or electrical loading of the stator.Of course disconnecting the stator wires and leaving the bare wires dangle about could be a shocking event.Simply isolate the stator from the bike to remove it from the system.(cut the yellow wires off and tape them up for this test)If the noise goes away then it's electrical loading,if not it's mechanical.This is step one.Divide and isolate.Virgil

CTInspect
Posts: 34
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200A Aspencade

Re: New noise

Postby CTInspect » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:29 pm

Well Virgil, its a combo of both. ElectroMechanical if I may say. I havent quite figured the complete sequence of events but the stator is "de-statored" and the regulator is "de-regulated". The noise is still there and it definately was linked to the cycle of voltage drop, but it wasnt load doing it, it was failure of the stator when it heated up.
I had decided to start testing just as I would any elec motor, gen or drive. A couple of multimeters, an AC clamp on meter, easy once my memory kicked in.
This thing literally failed while I was troubleshooting, from hearing the noise while I was setting up the carbs, to noticing the dimming lights, from good readings to worse to bad.
And I also now know why I was having a problem setting up the carbs, one stuck float, flooding and a whole lot of gas in one cyclinder.
I will post how and what in a new subject because I am sure it will be of help to someone else.
For now, does anyone know where to get a good reg/rect and stator,(and dont tell me Saber, Id rather walk) I do not want to cut up things for an conversion, Im sure there are better quality stators out there, without paying thru the nose.
Besides, the carbs have to come back off anyway, I can check the trans and clutch, and I already fixed my snowblower ...... so I'll pull a GW engine while it snows. First to clean the garage and benches so I can work !!!

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WingAdmin
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Re: New noise

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:38 pm

You might check PartsnMore. I know they carry both stators and rectifiers for 1100's...they may carry them for 1200's as well.

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virgilmobile
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84 GL 1200 I

Re: New noise

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:09 pm

Good testing and analysis.It sounds like the stator is leaking it's power to ground at the winding level.I can only surmise that the bad connections at the stator increased the current as the voltage drop occurred.this will overheat the windings and cook the enamel insulation.at that point in time there may be ac leakage to ground mid-stream windings when running, this leakage will act like a heater coil and raise the stator core temp and exasperate the problem,even with no load on the output terminals.I would suspect that any yellow wire will have some ohms to ground,even in the megger range.I won't guarantee that it did or did not damage the regulator circuit without further tests. Good info,good find.Virgil

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Ed Z
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Motorcycle: 2006 gl1800
1987 gl1200 Aspen
1983 gl650 Intersta

Re: New noise

Postby Ed Z » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:57 am

If the PO did indeed change the stator out, then it just might be the retaining nut has come loose... This has happened to several fellow 1200 owners... Most often it comes from failure of the person changing the stator to follow directions... Do torque the bolts and nuts to correct value, or get the chance to go back in there and do it a second time...

CTInspect
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:17 am
Location: Watertown, CT
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200A Aspencade

Re: New noise

Postby CTInspect » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:15 pm

I didnt think about a bad install. That may explain the noise, which could be a vibration. But Im not sure about the collapse of the readings once it got hot. from 49/49/49 to 2 legs @ 24, one to <10.
Either way I'll be taking it out.
Then I have to figure out which stator to purchase, 139 thru 250, old stock, aftermarket, I'd like to find one thats beefed up alittle, same with the reg/rec.(which I believe was also replaced because it looks too new, clean wires and clean white connector)
I'll let you know when I know
Thanks

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Ed Z
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Re: New noise

Postby Ed Z » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:50 am

Here's the ones I purchased many years ago...
http://www.electrosport.com/street-bike ... 84-87.html

I found my charging problem to be the connectors rather than the stator itself so they never got installed... I liked the design as the coils are coated in epoxy to help seal them from the oil... The regulator had much larger cooling fins than the OEM one too...

CTInspect
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:17 am
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Re: New noise

Postby CTInspect » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:11 am

Ed Z
They are one of the vendors I am looking at, I also like RMStator in Canada. I'll make the choice soon. I was trying to locate a "wire set" also, to hardwire all the way up. Im really suprised that the stator doesnt come with longer wire and no connector ....
The motor should be out over the WE. Unless it warms up enough to ride (the other bike).




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