White Smoke


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SAILOR
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White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:19 pm



Seems like after I've riden the bike of say 1/2 hour, and stop for a quick stop at the store (2-5 mins), when I get back on and start it up get a bunch of white smoke to come out. It smells kind of sweet like antifreeze, so I'm thinking this some kind of water leakage problem. Any thoughts on what might cause this?



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Mooseman
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Re: White Smoke

Postby Mooseman » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:14 pm

I would keep an eye on the coolant level and see if you have lost fluid. If it is coolant, it's probably a head gasket.
Wings are notorious for leaving a little cloud of light colored blue smoke when parked on the side stand when hot. Some worse than others. It's just a wing thing.
But if you suspect a head gasket you should be able to see bubbles at the top of the radiator, while it's running if you remove the cap.
I would think this is a good start.
Enjoy the ride. They are all good, just some better than others.
Mooseman

SAILOR
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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:54 pm

I'll try to confirm if it is a head gasket tomorrow.

Today I took of the false tank, and lower fairing in prep for a timing be replacement.

How much bubbling should I see. Also I would guess I would also see the water level slowly go down if it was a head gasket. Would there also be water in the oil with a head gasket?

Greg

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Mooseman
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Re: White Smoke

Postby Mooseman » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:07 pm

If the radiator has been topped off and running as your bike has. All air should have been purged from the system. So any bubbles are a bad sign.
Thats why I said keep an eye on your overflow bottle to see if you are loosing fluid.
If it is a bad head gasket you could get water in the oil, oil in the water or it could just be going to the combustion chamber. I don't recall, did you have the heads off?
Enjoy the ride. They are all good, just some better than others.
Mooseman

SAILOR
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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:02 pm

Right now I have done anything. I'm just trying to assess the bike and resolve what might be wrong.

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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:07 pm

Where should I check for bubbles, in the overflow tank, or in the radiator?

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thrasherg
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Re: White Smoke

Postby thrasherg » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:01 am

Do you have access to a compression tester? They are a cheap gauge that you screw into the spark plug hole, then hold the throttle wide open and crank the engine on the electric start for a few seconds and read the pressure. Check all cylinders, if the head gasket has failed you will see a significantly lower value on one or more cylinders..

Gary

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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:40 am

I got one of those. All I need to do is find it. I plan to do that before I start tearing the bike completely apart. I will let you know how that goes.

Greg

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Re: White Smoke

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:59 am

SAILOR wrote:Where should I check for bubbles, in the overflow tank, or in the radiator?


In the radiator - run the bike with the radiator cap off, and you'll see the bubbles coming up the neck of the radiator if there's a problem.

SAILOR
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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:13 pm

Here is where I stand now. My compression tester would screw into the spark plug hole it wasn't 12mm X 1.25. I went to harbor freight and picked up a cheap compression tester, that had one of those rubber heads to push down in the spark plug hole and hold while I cranked the engine over. Here is what I found:

Right front: 115
Right rear: 120
Left front: 120
Left rear: 110

I'm thinking because of the crappy seal not having a screw in type compression tester these might be a little low of the real readings. What do you think? What are they suppose to read? Isn't more like above 170 the right numbers?

Also when I removed the false tank so I could get easy access to the radiator cap I found the radiator low. I couldn't even see the water. I filled it to the top with Honda type 2 antifreeze. Started up the bike an watched. I saw a few bubbles come up ever so often.

Think I might ride it a little more and see if the radiator level stay up or goes down. Or should I just bite the bullet and do that head gasket replacement. Any one know of a blog post for how to do a head gasket replacement. What special tools might I need?

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Re: White Smoke

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:11 pm

If the rad was very low, and you filled it up, it would be normal to see some bubbles come up as it worked the air out. Normally you would run the engine for a good 15 minutes, adding coolant as required until you don't see any more bubbles. At that point (when all the air is out) the coolant level should stay constant, and no more bubbles should appear.

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Mooseman
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Re: White Smoke

Postby Mooseman » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm

The book says 185 psi for compression but gives a range of 156-213 psi. I am sure you are loosing some due to the rubber seal and not the screw in type.
Enjoy the ride. They are all good, just some better than others.
Mooseman

SAILOR
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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:00 pm

I think I'll ride it a little more and see if the radiator goes down. I'm guessing I'm losing some PSI's due to the rubber seal. I'll see if someone else has a better compression tester. I wouldn't think I would lose a lot like 50 PSI's, so possible I'm due for a head gasket.

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thrasherg
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Re: White Smoke

Postby thrasherg » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:23 pm

Are you sure you are using the gauge correctly? You must hold the throttle wide open whilst you crank the engine on the starter motor. Keep cranking until the pressure reading stops increasing.. That will then be the final reading, of course as it's not a screw in type gauge it will be difficult to hold the throttle open, crank the motor and hold the rubber **** tight against the spark plug hole!! You will probably need someone to help you. The pressure readings that you are seeing are quite common if you do this test with the throttle closed.. As the gauges are Harbor freight they are probably not that accurate, but the absolute value is not that critical, it's the difference between the pressures in each cylinder that is important, they should all be within 10%.. None of your values indicates a failed head gasket to me!! As you said, I think you need to fill the cooling system and ride a bit to see if it drops again. If you didn't use the correct procedure to read the cylinder pressure try doing it again and see if you get a higher reading..

Gary

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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:59 pm

I have a throttle lock. I'm fairly sure it was locked in the full throttle position. I'll try it again and make sure the throttle lock is place, while I hold the compression as tight as I can.

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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:51 am

I have researched the my water issues some. I've filled my tank and run the moter with the radiator cap off. It doesn't appear that the to have any bubbles coming up. It also appears that there is less white smoke now that the temp our side is 20 degrees warmer. But I am losing some water. It appears to be coming from some where up at the top of the radiator. Possibly from the hose. But I can't see where it is coming from. I'm going to get a mirror and a flashlight to see if I can determine where it is coming from. I'll get back to when I know more.

I still need to check those low compression numbers, but right now I'm working on solving the leaking radiator.

Greg

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Re: White Smoke

Postby imfree » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:04 am

Check your radiator cap to make sure it is holding pressure,also check the hose that goes to the overflow bottle.

SAILOR
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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:19 am

Not the radiator cap, or overflow bottle, because the radiator cap is off, when I noticed the water flowing down the back of the radiator. Remember I was looking down in the radiator to check and see if there where bubbles to access head gasket issues. No bubbles guess thats good, but now I wonder about those low compression numbers I got.

I'm guessing the water might be coming from the hose that hooks to the top of the radiator, but of course I can see in then. I'm wondering if I get a little mirror if I can tell where it is coming from.

Greg

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Re: White Smoke

Postby imfree » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:14 am

Put the cap back on and run it until the fan comes on ,Then look for a leak.With the cap off as the engine warms up the coolant will exspand and run out of the radiator,

SAILOR
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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:00 am

It is not coming out of the top of the tank. Because the water level when the leaking occurs is lower that the top of the tank, I can see that. Of course if I let the bike run for more that 5 or 10 minutes the water will expand and start rising in the radiator and start coming out the cap. But the leaking happens well before the water level get to the top of the tank.

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tricky
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Re: White Smoke

Postby tricky » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:07 pm

sounds like a head gasket.

when the engine is running the pressure will put exhaust gas into the coolant system.

When stopped the pressure in the coolant will push coolant back into the cylinders, hence the white smoke and smell of antifreeze on start up.

happened to me, a very slight leak.

do both sides while your at it.

SAILOR
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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:21 pm

I was thinking of doing the head gasket but I heard you where also suppose to have bubbles coming up in the radiator. No bubbles in mine.

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tricky
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Re: White Smoke

Postby tricky » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:57 pm

Mine was such a small leak that I couldnt detect bubbles either.

the smell after stopping the bike while having a coffee indicated coolant build up in the cylinder.

SAILOR
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Re: White Smoke

Postby SAILOR » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:23 pm

I'm finally back at getting my bike on the rode. Got side tracked with putting new brakes on. That's done.

Here's what I know. The bike was up on the center stand for a couple of weeks while I did the brakes. When I first started it no smoke. I let it warm up good and hot, will reviewing the radiator no bubbles. After I shut the bike down and then started back up 3 to 5 minutes later lots of white smoke came out. As you can see from the thread I have fairly low compression. So what you think? Time for new head gaskets?

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WingAdmin
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Re: White Smoke

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:21 pm

Could be...give the smoke a sniff, and see if it smells sweet.




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