Vapor Locking or something else?


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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ariespaw0379
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Magna, UT
Motorcycle: 1985 Limited Edition Honda Goldwing GL1200

Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby ariespaw0379 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:51 pm



This is my boyfriend's bike, so I will try to exlain what's going on, to get the right responses, while he's outside yelling at the Goldwing. :D He has a 1985 LE Goldwing GL1200. The bike runs great in the morning and evening. However, if we take the bike out in the late afternoon, when the air temps are at their highest, we can only go so far before the bike starts losing power. No warning lights come on. The bike starts stalling while we're riding. He has to keep "reving the gas" to keep the bike going on the freeway. If he can baby it to 70+ mph, we're ok, but as soon as we have to slow down, the whole "choking" process starts all over again. Then the backfiring starts. Once we stop, like at a red light, the bike shuts off. We restart it, try to gun it to get going again, it goes, chokes, tries to die, bucks us off the seat, backfires, chokes, dies, restart, gun it, and so on and so on. Once the bike cools all the way down, or the sun goes down, which ever comes first, we're fine. Again, this is only during the hottest parts of the day.

I also read in the owners manual, pg 165 or 175, that there is a kit that Honda dealerships will install for free, as certain year of Goldwings are having power issues due to gas/alcohal mix and high temps and altitude. We live in Utah, so we have all three. Has anyone gotten this kit and does it work?

Last thing, he just had the stator replaced/fixed last summer. Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions. I have to help somehow. :)


"Some women aren't meant to be tamed. They need to run free until they find someone just as wild to run with.
"

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virgilmobile
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84 GL 1200 I

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:06 pm

Start with the easy stuff.When it happens,loosen the gas cap and try again.There should be no vacuum in the tank.The cap has a 1 way valve in it(may be plugged).

If that doesn't help,the ignition module MAY be heat stroking.Tough to verify but not unheard of.

I suspect that if the bike runs fine morning and night,the gas mixture and octane are a non issue other than performance.

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trukr
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Motorcycle: 1984 gl1200 aspencade

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby trukr » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:37 pm

You might also want to check fuel pump flow, in case the pump is starting to go. Also check power pulse from pump relay to pump, the relay might be going bad. But rest assured you are in the right place here someone will help you get to the bottom of your problem here.

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Right Winger
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Motorcycle: 85 ltd
84aspy

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby Right Winger » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:54 pm

8-) That seems to be a common problem on the fuelies . It's called vaporlock the fuel is vaporising before it gets to the injectors. I haven't had a problem with mine as of yet. But I expect to. If it does happen to mine I am going to try to reroute the fuel line to see if it makes a difference :)

ariespaw0379
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Magna, UT
Motorcycle: 1985 Limited Edition Honda Goldwing GL1200

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby ariespaw0379 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:51 pm

Thank you all very much for your help. I will get this information to him today. If other's are reading this, please post anything you think may help, too. All ideas are greatly appreciated! Here's to the answer being easy, and long, fun bike rides in our future...no matter what time of day. I will keep you all updated on the outcome, to hopefully help others who run into this situation.
"Some women aren't meant to be tamed. They need to run free until they find someone just as wild to run with.
"

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virgilmobile
Posts: 7663
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Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:41 pm

AWLKRSN wrote:8-) That seems to be a common problem on the fuelies . It's called vaporlock the fuel is vaporising before it gets to the injectors. I haven't had a problem with mine as of yet. But I expect to. If it does happen to mine I am going to try to reroute the fuel line to see if it makes a difference :)


The "vapor lock"we reference is not so much vaporizing fuel in the delivery tubes due to heat as it is a vacuum developing in the fuel tank due to improper venting,resulting in fuel starvation.The fuel pump system can't overcome the vacuum and provides little if any fuel delivery.

downhomr
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Location: Ajax, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 Gl1200 Limited Edition

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby downhomr » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:57 pm

Hi there,
The symptoms you describe could also suggest the crank sensor under the belt covers.
On the LTD, there is only one and it is non-adjustable...just straight bolt on.
The sensor over time, and with heat develops a small hair line crack that interferes with the signal
going to the computer...for the timing signal.
When the bike cools down...it kinda closes up, and you're ready to go again.
Also, on the rear of the right cylinder head is a cam sensor under a 4 screw cover.
There is a gap there, that needs to be checked, and re-set if necessary, with the help of a feeler gauge.
On mine, I also snipped about a 3/8's inch off my plug wires at the plug cap and re-screwed them back on into fresh
cable.
The fuel filters on these bikes need to be changed more frequently it seems as they
are the automotive high pressure type.
One last thing...a bad, or going out fuel pump relay with give much grief as well.
The relays are under the travel computer cover...and are well marked.
Though I've had issue with most of the things I've outlined here...with the help of the various forums and the
kindness of others, I been able to put 215,000 kms. (Canada) on my LTD and she's still going strong.
Yes, these bikes tend to need extra TLC...nevertheless, they give much enjoyment in return.
Oh...by the way...I have a daughter living just south of Provo...been there many times...some of the best
roads on the continent.
Good Luck...and keep us posted of your findings...these bikes are so rare now, that any information shared is
benefited by many.

ariespaw0379
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Magna, UT
Motorcycle: 1985 Limited Edition Honda Goldwing GL1200

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby ariespaw0379 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:34 pm

Sorry it's taken so long to repost on here, but I wanted to give our bike some time to be fixed. The bad news is, she is not fixed. We tried the gas cap tips, checked the fuel injectors, and tried the sea foam, as a lot of people seemed to be fans of that stuff on this site. Nothing has worked so far. However, I have noticed 2 more replys on here, since I last logged on. Thank you both, I appreciate it and will pass them along. Something has to work! How about some good news, now that the temperatures have dropped, our afternoons are now in the high 80's, the Goldwing is running perfectly.....lol, go figure. Hopefully with everyone's advice, next summer she will run perfectly in the 90 and above temps. Thank you again to all, and I will keep posting as we try the new suggestions that I have read today.
~ to downhomr, yes the roads out here are beautiful. Great riding scenery. :)
"Some women aren't meant to be tamed. They need to run free until they find someone just as wild to run with.
"

ariespaw0379
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Magna, UT
Motorcycle: 1985 Limited Edition Honda Goldwing GL1200

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby ariespaw0379 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:43 am

A quick note. I was asked to post a reply letting you all know that although we have not "fixed" the Goldwing yet, using the highest grade gasoline has made a great difference on how the bike rides in the heat. Odd, but there it is, a tiny suggestion.
"Some women aren't meant to be tamed. They need to run free until they find someone just as wild to run with.
"

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WingAdmin
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Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:26 am

ariespaw0379 wrote:A quick note. I was asked to post a reply letting you all know that although we have not "fixed" the Goldwing yet, using the highest grade gasoline has made a great difference on how the bike rides in the heat. Odd, but there it is, a tiny suggestion.


That's not odd at all. Higher grade gasoline has a lower flashpoint. If you are experiencing detonation, it's because the fuel is self-igniting from the heat of the engine combined with the pressure of compression in the cylinder. This is bad because it tries to force the piston down when it's still traveling upward on its compression stroke. It can cause permanent damage to the engine if allowed to continue.

When the surrounding temperature is hotter, the overall temperature inside the cylinder is hotter, and the result can push the fuel/air mixture beyond the detonation point. Using "higher grade" fuel (fuel with a higher octane level) raises the temperature at which the fuel/air mixture will detonate, and will stop this from happening.

This is not something I've heard of people having a problem with in Goldwings before. But if it fixes it for you, then great!

ariespaw0379
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:01 pm
Location: Magna, UT
Motorcycle: 1985 Limited Edition Honda Goldwing GL1200

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby ariespaw0379 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:12 am

Thank you so much for that information. Seems to make more sense when you put it that way, lol. Yes, I hope no one else has to go through this issue of hot weather making their Goldwing perform bad, it's frustrating, to say the least.
"Some women aren't meant to be tamed. They need to run free until they find someone just as wild to run with.
"

ChasK
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Location: Bloomfield, IA
Motorcycle: 06 Victory Vegas
84 ASPENCADE

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby ChasK » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:54 pm

Am I reviving a dead issue? I sure hope so, I hope the problem is solved and ariespaw0379 can give me the cure.
My first post here and it's a complaint :( Sorry about that chief, LE supplement on order :D
New to me 85 fuel injected LE with 58K miles and all the symptoms previously described. Replaced ALL filters, plugs, oil, sea foam in 4 tanks, very embarrassing to stall at a busy intersection. Is this why Honda took such a long hiatus from fuel injection? The fuel filter is hot to the touch, so hot I wouldn't want to hold it in my hand for long. I'm in IA, aren't there any of these running around in TX? I would love to have the solution to this. Since I'm in the early troubleshooting phases, I will try the above suggestions and hope for the best, just hoping for an easy cure.
I am glad I found this site as I can see there is a ton of useful info here, going to the Davis rally in 2 weeks (New Hampton IA) don't want the embarrassment of stalling on the dinner cruise with a bunch of bikes behind me :oops:
If you're there and see a stalled 85 Limited Edition on the shoulder, wave and say "hi Chas". :D

johntrudeau
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: Melbourne, FL US
Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing Limited

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby johntrudeau » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:52 pm

ChasK wrote:Am I reviving a dead issue? I sure hope so, I hope the problem is solved and ariespaw0379 can give me the cure.
My first post here and it's a complaint :( Sorry about that chief, LE supplement on order :D
New to me 85 fuel injected LE with 58K miles and all the symptoms previously described. Replaced ALL filters, plugs, oil, sea foam in 4 tanks, very embarrassing to stall at a busy intersection. Is this why Honda took such a long hiatus from fuel injection? The fuel filter is hot to the touch, so hot I wouldn't want to hold it in my hand for long. I'm in IA, aren't there any of these running around in TX? I would love to have the solution to this. Since I'm in the early troubleshooting phases, I will try the above suggestions and hope for the best, just hoping for an easy cure.
I am glad I found this site as I can see there is a ton of useful info here, going to the Davis rally in 2 weeks (New Hampton IA) don't want the embarrassment of stalling on the dinner cruise with a bunch of bikes behind me :oops:
If you're there and see a stalled 85 Limited Edition on the shoulder, wave and say "hi Chas". :D


Did you get your problems fixed? I'm have similar problems with my '85 LTD too. John T.

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virgilmobile
Posts: 7663
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:15 pm

using the highest grade gasoline has made a great difference on how the bike rides in the heat.

One other thing comes to mind....the pb sensor....if I remember right,it measures atmospheric pressure....there is a chart in the manual on the voltage readings it should have for your specific altitude.

Also...If this is of any help...I devised a method for testing the pulse coil under any running condition...
It only verifies if a pulse coil is working or goes "thermal/open" while driving.
It helped locate my intermittent 'no spark' on my 1200.
It would at least put to rest if your 3rd pulse coil.(the one in front) is intermittent.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11800

johntrudeau
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: Melbourne, FL US
Motorcycle: 1985 Goldwing Limited

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby johntrudeau » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:07 pm

Have you ever figured out this problem because I have the exact problem you've descripted.
John Trudeau (321)868-6800

ariespaw0379 wrote:This is my boyfriend's bike, so I will try to exlain what's going on, to get the right responses, while he's outside yelling at the Goldwing. :D He has a 1985 LE Goldwing GL1200. The bike runs great in the morning and evening. However, if we take the bike out in the late afternoon, when the air temps are at their highest, we can only go so far before the bike starts losing power. No warning lights come on. The bike starts stalling while we're riding. He has to keep "reving the gas" to keep the bike going on the freeway. If he can baby it to 70+ mph, we're ok, but as soon as we have to slow down, the whole "choking" process starts all over again. Then the backfiring starts. Once we stop, like at a red light, the bike shuts off. We restart it, try to gun it to get going again, it goes, chokes, tries to die, bucks us off the seat, backfires, chokes, dies, restart, gun it, and so on and so on. Once the bike cools all the way down, or the sun goes down, which ever comes first, we're fine. Again, this is only during the hottest parts of the day.

I also read in the owners manual, pg 165 or 175, that there is a kit that Honda dealerships will install for free, as certain year of Goldwings are having power issues due to gas/alcohal mix and high temps and altitude. We live in Utah, so we have all three. Has anyone gotten this kit and does it work?

Last thing, he just had the stator replaced/fixed last summer. Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions. I have to help somehow. :)

Gus Riley
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:53 pm
Location: Cuba, IL
Motorcycle: 1985 Honda Goldwing LTD

Re: Vapor Locking or something else?

Postby Gus Riley » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:54 pm

Ok, in researching the forums for the same issue(s) one forum poster wrote that he had once poured cold water on the fuel line right where it enters the fuel pump. He stated that the engine leveled out and ran well or much better. I got to thinking, maybe a hose of some sort could be routed to that fuel hose section and cool it somewhat with ram air? I did just that. I took some aircraft air cooling hose(scat hose) and routed it. At 83 degrees and humid it WORKED!!! I test rode for half an hour. I could bring the engine close to red line and it never missed a beat...not once. After my test ride I shut it down and felt the fuel line at the fuel pump...I could comfortably touch it no problem...as before it was hot! So I am waiting for a 90 degree plus day to test it again.
hopefully my pictures will post here.
Attachments
whole hose routing
whole hose routing
Air inlet
Air inlet
routing
routing
routing
routing
air exit
air exit




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