Clutch Bleeding problem.


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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SAILOR
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Motorcycle: 1984 honda goldwing

Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby SAILOR » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:15 pm



The other day my bike started to be hard to shift. I took off the top of the master cylinder and the found I was low. After putting the top of the master cylinder on I rode a little ways after a couple of shifts my clutch lever when soft. After reading the forums I realized I got air in the system. I filled the fluid bleed the banjo nut a three or four times. When to bleed the slave cylinder and found the bleeding nipple stripped. Clutch kind of works, mean I have some pressure and I can kind of roll the bike in first gear, but I can feel it is dragging a lot. I even left the bike on the right side for 3 or 4 hours with the clutch lever tied to the grip to hope the air would work to the top. Any thoughts on how to blead the clutch with a stripped bleeder value?



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Mooseman
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby Mooseman » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:16 pm

If the bleeder screw is stripped so you cant get a wrench on it you might try a pair of needle nose vise grips to loosen it and replace with a new one. If the treads are stripped you will have to pull off that slave cylinder to fix or replace. I know it's a bugger to get to.
With the bike on the center stand turn the wheel to the right so the clutch reservoir is kind of level. Pull off the cover and fill to upper level. Now very carefully squeeze the clutch lever in just a little and release. Do this several times and you should see little bubbles start to come up. Do this till they quite. You will have to see how far to squeeze and release. Go easy or fluid will squirt out. So make sure to place a few rags underneath to protect the paint. Hope this helps...
Enjoy the ride. They are all good, just some better than others.
Mooseman

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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby SAILOR » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:22 am

I don't see how you can get the plyers of needle nose down there. I suppose I could remove the slave cylinder and get a pair of plyers on it.

Have already leaned the bike and filled the fluid. When I squeze the lever, there a no bubbles coming up. There where but I now have them all gone.

Also burped the banjo bolt. Is there really any need to bleed the fluid from the slave cylinder? wouldnt all the air go up the line and stop at the banjo bolt?

Like I said I can kind of roll the bike with the clutch in now, but there appears to be quite a bit of resistance. Is there any other adjustments to make sure the clutch is set right to disengage the transmission?

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Mooseman
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby Mooseman » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:25 am

No other adjustments that I know of. It's all hyd. But if the bike has been setting for awhile the clutch plates have a lot of drag especailly when cold. Is the engine running when you are pushing it? If not I would say your drag is from thee oil and clutch plates. Setting on the bike and engine running and putting it in first gear, does the bike try and creep forward or stay in one place with the clutch pulled in? If you are trying to push it in gear with the engine off, there is a lot of drag.
Enjoy the ride. They are all good, just some better than others.
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby SAILOR » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:43 pm

I am trying to push it in gear with the engine off and the clutch pulled in. Seems to me that the drag should be the same as nuetral which of course it isn't. Each day I'm at my other house I don't have the key to see if I can start it without it lurching forward. I will give it a try. When you say the drag is from the oil and clutch plate is that normal? Shouldn't it be the same as in nuetral?

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Mooseman
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby Mooseman » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:24 pm

Nope it drags. That's why the big clunk when you put it in gear. I never try to push mine around in gear. Will back up with it running in gear. But those clutch disk drag especially with cold oil.
Enjoy the ride. They are all good, just some better than others.
Mooseman

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starfleetengineer
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby starfleetengineer » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:23 pm

I've had the same problem with my 84 Gl1200 I for the last week and a half. I thought the res was full, but it fooled me. With the top on it pushes the fluid up around the site glass. I sat on the bike, turned the wheel all the way right. With the hand brake on and the clutch master cyl cover off, I leaned the bike as far right as I could with out droping it. If you look at the master cyl at the banjo bolt end you can see how close you are to level. Then just squeese the handle slow and about 15 to 20 times, useing full strokes! Next with the bike on the side stand I pointed the banjo bolt to the sky. I pumped the handle about 4 to 6 times or when I saw no more air bubbles! Holding the handle in I cracked the banjo bolt. You would be suprized the amount of air that is traped up their. Before the handle reaches full stroke, close the banjo bolt. Do this a couple of times. Make sure the master is full the hole time :oops: Dooing it over suckes :!: Now set the bike on the side stand. From the right side of the bike you can reach in and lossen the bleeder. " Now is when you need the 3rd hand!" Pump the handle 3 times, open the bleeder and close it before it reaches full travle!!!! Do this a few times, and be sure the master is full. You should notice now that you have a good clutch handle and good pressure. I know you can get a small pair of vice grips in to grab the bleeder from the right side. You just have to feel/see " eyes on the ends your fingers" your way down their. It can be done and it's not that hard. The wrench for the bleeder is 8mm or 5/16. Both work. If you handle still feels a little weak, Have you 3rd hand start to pull the handle in and open the bleeder and close it before it reaches full travle. I had a weak handle and it would jump into gear when I tried to drop it in 1st. Now I have an excelant handle. Take your time, speed makes you do it more than once ;)
How many times do I have to tell ya,,, The right tool for the right job!

SAILOR
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby SAILOR » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:16 pm

Here is where I am now. Still have not tried to get the bleeder out. I have good pressure on the clutch now that I've cracked the banjo a couple of time. When I start the bike when it is cold and the clutch handle in and in 1st gear it jumps a little. Bike seems to shift ok. Once the bike is warmed up and I shut it down, the bike no longer jumps when I start it in 1st gear with the clutch in. Is it normal when the bikes are cold to have them jump a little when starting the bike in gear?

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Mooseman
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby Mooseman » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:00 pm

Yes the oil is cold and thick. If you try starting it in gear when cold, it's really hard on the starter. I always start mine in nuteral when cold and rock it back and forth, or let it roll a little ways with the clutch in before droping it into gear. It's always a big clunk on that first engagement. After it's warm I start it in gear by pulling in the clutch as I always park it in first gear. Acts as a parking brake. It's just a GW thing. My 85 always did the same thing.
Enjoy the ride. They are all good, just some better than others.
Mooseman

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starfleetengineer
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby starfleetengineer » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:00 pm

Just as Mooseman says, it a GW thing. Now that colder temps are coming in the morning I notice it a lot more. Just let her warm up a little and you'll be fine.
How many times do I have to tell ya,,, The right tool for the right job!

Big-Bob
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby Big-Bob » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:03 pm

As far as bleeding the clutch, the bleeder screw will HAVE to come out. Hopefully you can get it out without damaging the threads in the slave cylinder. Try needle nose ViseGrips. I've done amazing things with those. If you can get it out without damaging the threads, don't bother replacing it with a stock one. Get a SpeedBleeder ( http://www.speedbleeder.com/ ). On the 1200, all 3 brake calipers and the clutch use the same part number. These things are nothing short of magic. Just loosen it a little, take your good easy time and 2 hands, pump fluid through the system with one hand, and keep the reservoir full with the other hand. Don't pump to hard, I got squirted in the face from the master cylinder. After pumping about 8oz through it, and with the reservoir about 1/4" inch from being completely full, get down there and tighten the screw. Put the diaphragm, plastic cover, and aluminum cover back on the reservoir, and unless there are mechanical problems somewhere, the clutch will work like new. There will be almost no freeplay in the lever. I used to hate bleeding hydraulic brakes and clutches, even after getting a MityVac, but these SpeedBleeders make it simplicity itself. My Goldwing now has 4 of them. (and no, I don't sell them, I just think they are about the greatest product for motorcycles and cars ever conceived)


As far as the clutch drag thing, all wet clutches drag. That is why I never put my bike in gear at a dead stop. I always start it in first gear, shift it into first just before coming to a stop, and always park it in first gear. In the morning I warm up the bike in neutral, hit the kill switch, shift into first, then restart it in first once it is warmed up. That loud CLUNK that comes from shifting with the clutch only partially disengaged has got to be putting a whopper of a shock load on the transmission.

thomased
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby thomased » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:18 pm

I rebuilt my clutch master cyl and it doesnt want to work. Is there a picture or a clear diagram on how the re-assy goes?

Big-Bob
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby Big-Bob » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:14 am

thomased wrote:I rebuilt my clutch master cyl and it doesnt want to work. Is there a picture or a clear diagram on how the re-assy goes?



You can check the manual, or the parts fiche on any one of a number of online parts sites. If you go to one of those, I recommend ronayers.com. They have nice clear diagrams. I looked at it, and it is pretty simple, so you probably got it right. Contrary to what many people say, the clutch is not easy to bleed on the 1200. I have been bleeding car brakes for decades without incident, and though it is a hassle, it usually worked. After about an hour a a qt of fluid I bled the 1200 clutch well enough to work, but it still seemed to have too much free play in it. That's when I gave up and got the SpeedBleeder. Worked perfect first time. If you look at it while it is apart, there is an area above the bleeder screw that traps air, and you have to pump the lever pretty good to force it out. Almost impossible to do while opening and closing the bleeding screw at the same time. The SpeedBleeder has a spring loaded check valve in it, and you just open it and leave it open. It basically opens and closes itself. Then all you have to do is pump the lever and keep the reservoir full.

thomased
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby thomased » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:33 am

Thanks I did order the speed bleaders and I have a mightyvac can I use both? You are so very right it's a ##### tough thing to get right.
Thanks
Ed

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firstwing85
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby firstwing85 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:53 pm

if you need to remove the slave to get the bleed valve off,
the good news is that you can get at the slave and get it off just having your bike on the center stand.
I had to do that with mine and it took just a couple of minutes..
Johan

thomased
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Re: Clutch Bleeding problem.

Postby thomased » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:42 am

Thanks the speed bleeders are the WAY TO GO. Wow what a time and labor saver. After a few pumps all the air was gone and it finally works.
Thanks :D




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