poorboy conversion


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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glnewbe
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Aspencade

poorboy conversion

Postby glnewbe » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:33 pm



I just bought a 1984 gl1200, with 47000 km (29000 mi) picking it up tomorrow. The po says it needs a new stator. I am reading everything I can find about keeping it original or doing the poor boy conversion. A lot of negative info about poor boy conv. Has anyone done this conversion and put a lot of milage on the bike to tell if it has any ill effects? Any info would be appreciated. thanks glnewbe



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vtxcandyred
Posts: 517
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:08 pm
Location: Oregon, Ohio
Motorcycle: 1993 Honda Goldwing SE

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby vtxcandyred » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:21 am

Give this site a try. I have heard a lot of good things about the convertion. http://www.gl1200goldwings.com/index.php

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SilverDave
Posts: 367
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:39 am
Location: Langley, BC
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 GoldWing Aspy

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby SilverDave » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:03 am

Do the entire 3-part test on the original stator, first... (its cheaper !! )

A fritzy Reg/rect can also cause problems
When I first got mine, I had spectacular effects that looked like a faulty stator ... Flashing displays, starting and stopping, discharging battery too fast, etc, etc..

The three part test showed the stator still had 70 volts on each leg ..
so...
I purchased a new Rect/reg, hard wired/ soldered/ shrink wrapped everything, and got a new ELectrical connection GL1200 harness ( $50)
and its been going since then, with the original stator for 8 years now..

I sorta like the idea of original , if possible. What the 1985 engineers designed was VERY good, and should have lasted for 30 years... the flaw was not the Stator, but the cheap connection at the yellow wire plug ..

Those bayonet sliding plugs are designed for 12 volts, not 70 volts... High current and heat can easily defeat those plugs, and slowly destroy your stator or regulator..


SilverDave

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tricky
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Location: Canada

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby tricky » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:42 am

I think the main problem was lack of owner maintenance, the connectors got corroded and bingo .. meltdown. If they had been cleaned and tightened and possibly a weather proof coating of electrical grease, they would have lasted.
As far as original, mine is still original, but got the external for lots of lights.... visibility is good.

glnewbe
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Aspencade

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby glnewbe » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:45 pm

Thanks for the info. I will do some serious checking before I start pulling the engine. glnewbe

glnewbe
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Aspencade

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby glnewbe » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:34 pm

I charged the battery today and checked it with a multimeter 12.5 volts. No increase when I started the engine. Cut off the plug on 3 yellow wires and tested each one to ground with engine running. Showed less than 1 volt on each wire. Does this mean stator is toast?

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vtxcandyred
Posts: 517
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Location: Oregon, Ohio
Motorcycle: 1993 Honda Goldwing SE

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby vtxcandyred » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:54 am

glnewbe wrote:I charged the battery today and checked it with a multimeter 12.5 volts. No increase when I started the engine. Cut off the plug on 3 yellow wires and tested each one to ground with engine running. Showed less than 1 volt on each wire. Does this mean stator is toast?

If it truely shows what you said, then yes, the stator is toast. I was going to do the poorboy conversion when I had my 85 Aspy only because if it went bad again it would be a snap to change out and not cost an arm and a leg and LOTS of down time. Two pennies.

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trukr
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 9:11 pm
Location: sheffield, Illinois
Motorcycle: 1984 gl1200 aspencade

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby trukr » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:02 am

I have the poor boy conversion on my 84 aspencade and it works flawlessly. No problems at all and much nicer than having to pull the engine. You don't even see it.

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starfleetengineer
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:02 pm
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1979 Yamaha 650 Special
1978 CB750
1980 Yamaha 650 Special
1983 Honda V65 Magna 1100c
1984 GL1200I Interstate

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby starfleetengineer » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:39 am

I like the idea of the poor boy, I just don't like the prices I've seen for the brackets and pullie :!: $200 for the brackets and pullie is too much for what you get. Any one can make the brackets who has any common sence and access to a mig welder. You can get the pullie at any atlenator repair shop. I checked my local shop and I can get the pullie for around $15. I am in the mits of making my own when I have the extra time. 3 peices of flat steel, a little mesureing and welding and your done. You can have the peices powtercoated for a cheap price. You just ask them to run them though a bach that is the color you want. and if you have the metal already prep't then the coast is less. I don't dought that they think the cost is resonable for what they sell, but I hope it has some gold in it :lol: I'm not sure I would pay $200 for the alt brackets, pully and radiator extenders. For the amount of work that is left to do to install the kit, I would think more people would say something about a $200 + price tag :!:
It's just my thoughts, but I always find ways to spend less with the price of everything going up!
How many times do I have to tell ya,,, The right tool for the right job!

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vtxcandyred
Posts: 517
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Location: Oregon, Ohio
Motorcycle: 1993 Honda Goldwing SE

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby vtxcandyred » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:22 pm

starfleetengineer wrote:I like the idea of the poor boy, I just don't like the prices I've seen for the brackets and pullie :!: $200 for the brackets and pullie is too much for what you get. Any one can make the brackets who has any common sence and access to a mig welder. You can get the pullie at any atlenator repair shop. I checked my local shop and I can get the pullie for around $15. I am in the mits of making my own when I have the extra time. 3 peices of flat steel, a little mesureing and welding and your done. You can have the peices powtercoated for a cheap price. You just ask them to run them though a bach that is the color you want. and if you have the metal already prep't then the coast is less. I don't dought that they think the cost is resonable for what they sell, but I hope it has some gold in it :lol: I'm not sure I would pay $200 for the alt brackets, pully and radiator extenders. For the amount of work that is left to do to install the kit, I would think more people would say something about a $200 + price tag :!:
It's just my thoughts, but I always find ways to spend less with the price of everything going up!

Thats real nice if you have the talent, skills and EQUIPMENT!!!!!! For those of us lacking the above mentioned things, two hundred bucks is a bargain. Perhaps YOU could go into business and make them cheaper for the 1200 owners?????? Just a thought!!!!!!!

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twostrokes48
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Motorcycle: 98 Goldwing 1500 trike
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94 Goldwing 1500- towpac trike (sold)
88 Goldwing 1500- (sold)
84 GL1200 Aspy-SOLD
75 GL1000(stolen 87)
88 GW trike (totaled)
1972 750k2

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby twostrokes48 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:40 pm

I just recently put the kit on my 84 Aspy...Everything seems fine. Have not put many miles on it since installing it as am still trying to figure out why it is running hot. Not superhot but higher than normal. Only thing I notice is that there is now a noticable whine from the alternator. The bike was so quiet before, it just stands out to me. Others don't seem to notice it that much.

glnewbe
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Aspencade

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby glnewbe » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Ok..Thanks everyone for your input. I have pretty well decided to go with the conversion, however I have only had the bike on one very short ride (about 5 miles) afraid the battery would go dead and I don't know much about Wings. I down loaded a repair manual hoping to see how to remove the fairing. Very confusing. Read somewhere it was a 20 minute job. From the manual it looks like an all day job (removing each little panel). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also I tried to email poorboy from the address I got on here, using the underscore in address and the message was returned as undeliverable. I also read on a forum that you have to grind away part of the case on the alternator to make it fit inside the fairing. Is this correct? Thanks for the help. glnewbe

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starfleetengineer
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:02 pm
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1979 Yamaha 650 Special
1978 CB750
1980 Yamaha 650 Special
1983 Honda V65 Magna 1100c
1984 GL1200I Interstate

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby starfleetengineer » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:20 pm

I don't know about grinding on the alt. But the only part of the fairing you need to remove is the left lower section. There is 3 screws a lower bolt on the radiator and an upper nut. You can have it off in 5 min's. But you need to remover the right side as well because you will have to pull the radiator out to get to the timing covers and also to mod the fan braces.
Good luck! and posts some pics as you go! Would love to see the work in progress... ;)
How many times do I have to tell ya,,, The right tool for the right job!

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twostrokes48
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:21 pm
Location: San Antonio,TX
Motorcycle: 98 Goldwing 1500 trike
75 GL1000 (restoring)
98 Goldwing with landing gear (for sale)
94 Goldwing 1500- towpac trike (sold)
88 Goldwing 1500- (sold)
84 GL1200 Aspy-SOLD
75 GL1000(stolen 87)
88 GW trike (totaled)
1972 750k2

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby twostrokes48 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:57 pm

It all depends on what alternator you get....I did not have to grind on mine. I did have to cut a little bit of plastic off the inside. Can't describe it exactly, but up in the area where the alternator goes, had to cut a little piece off the back side of one of the fairing pieces. No harm, cannot be seen. also the setup I used, I could not use the original fan, there just wasn't room. I put an external fan on. Found one exactly the sizeof the radiator, so looks like it belongs there.. Will try to get a pic tomorrow and post.There is a lot to be left up to the individual,

Larry3609
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:57 am
Location: Syracuse, New York
Motorcycle: 1985 gl1200a aspencade

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby Larry3609 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:37 am

I have had my conversion for a year now, and it has preformed great, no regrets. Have put 6k on bike and when i checked the charge last week it was charging at 14.7 at 1800rpm. I made own parts, from the info on this site and wasn't that hard to do. not one bit sorry for doing it, will be doing my sons 86 this fall when he puts it up for the season, will be making some changes and put a different alt. in so we wont have to grind the ear off, if you read the info on this site about the conversion, and how to do it, it is self explanning and there are some of the best people on here that will give you plenty of advice if you have a problem.

glnewbe
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Aspencade

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby glnewbe » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:23 pm

Twostrokes48; What alternator did you use on ur conversion?

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twostrokes48
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:21 pm
Location: San Antonio,TX
Motorcycle: 98 Goldwing 1500 trike
75 GL1000 (restoring)
98 Goldwing with landing gear (for sale)
94 Goldwing 1500- towpac trike (sold)
88 Goldwing 1500- (sold)
84 GL1200 Aspy-SOLD
75 GL1000(stolen 87)
88 GW trike (totaled)
1972 750k2

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby twostrokes48 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:21 pm

It is a Denso, Chevy Mini Denso, Street Rod Race 1wire 50 amp..available on ebay from DBElectrical. They have a store, just search their store on ebay. Looks like they have lowered the price. I think I paid like 90 plus shipping....it is now $72 plus shipping.

mrmikey
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Location: Hardwood Lands, 30 mins outside Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1996 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby mrmikey » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:24 am

Cut off the plug on 3 yellow wires and tested each one to ground with engine running

Check to each other, not to ground, there should be no continuity to ground from any of the three stator wires. The voltage between any two of hte three stator wires should be 70VAC± (not sure of the exact voltage) note: Alternating Current not DC.....Mike
1996 Aspencade

Big-Bob
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:54 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
2001 XT225
2002 Vulcan 750
2009 Ninja 500

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby Big-Bob » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:40 pm

First of all, the Honda charging system (and this applies to virtually ANY Japanese motorcycle) is about the worst possible design. Instead of controlling the field output of the alternator by the load placed on it, like the way car alternators work, the motorcycle system runs at full capacity all the time, controlled only by engine rpm (makes less current at idle). There is absolutely NO control on the alternator (stator) output. It's full on 100% of the time, whether all that power is needed or not. Whatever is leftover, and with my '85 LTD that puts out a staggering 500 watts, there is PLENTY left over, is simply SHORTED to ground and converted to heat by the R/R. Not only a terrible waste of power, but my R/R got so hot once it set the bike on fire. Fortunately I was working on it at the time, and got it put out before it did much damage. I had already cut out all 3 connectors and soldered everything. R/R was still red hot. Both R/R and stator checked out fine according to the manual. I measured the temperature of the R/R at over 300 degrees F with an infrared thermometer. That's about 100 degrees F over the coolant temperature. I am still running that same R/R, after repairing all the burned wiring, I added 200 watts worth of lighting to the engine guard, and hooked up a high output blower type fan under the fake tank, with a duct directly to the R/R. The fan motor draws 4 amps. With the additional 200 watts worth of lights, a fan that draws 4 amps, and all the air blowing over the R/R, it finally cooled down enough not to be a fire danger. But It is about the dumbest system I have ever seen, and that was confirmed by an electrical engineer who looked at it.


The poorboy kit on the other hand is exactly what the doctor ordered. An AUTOMOTIVE alternator, with a load controlled output, and a single wire connection. There will be no problems with that system, and it is what Honda and all other motorcycle manufacturers should have been using for decades.

I would love to have one, and money is not the problem. It is well worth what it costs, especially the pulley. Sure you can buy pulleys, but not like that one. It is designed to be a perfect fit on the GW crankshaft, it is the perfect length and diameter, and it would cost 3 times as much to have someone with a CNC mill make you one. The issue I have is an almost complete lack of instructions. Poorboy doesn't really provide any instructions, someone else wrote up some, but they are very vague. I have an LTD, and the brackets are not located in the same place as other models. For the price of the kit, I think it should come with very detailed instructions with lots of pictures for every model it fits. Grind this, drill that just doesn't cut it. I know they can be used on the LTD because it has been done. But I won't buy one until I know EXACTLY how to make it work.

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twostrokes48
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:21 pm
Location: San Antonio,TX
Motorcycle: 98 Goldwing 1500 trike
75 GL1000 (restoring)
98 Goldwing with landing gear (for sale)
94 Goldwing 1500- towpac trike (sold)
88 Goldwing 1500- (sold)
84 GL1200 Aspy-SOLD
75 GL1000(stolen 87)
88 GW trike (totaled)
1972 750k2

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby twostrokes48 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:15 pm

I know exactly what you mean...But, since my stator was fried and the bike had been sitting up for about 9 months already, I went ahead and bought the kit. I am fortunate that I have a mechanic and friend who is as much engineer as he is mechanic. I took the bike to him along with the kit. After much discussion we decided on an alternator which I ordered on ebay. He figured it out, decided with an external fan which is exact size of radiator and put it all together. The only cutting he had to do was a little trimming on one piece of plastic that fits up against the bottom of the main fairing. The trimming was on the inside so no harm no foul and no visibility. I am very happy with the outcome. It cost me $500 in labor and cost of what he bought like fan, 40 amp fuse block, and anything else he had to buy...Yes a heavy price but it is done and done right. It would have been much better if the kit came with P/N's for all the little extra parts and where to get them. I understand there are many people fully capable of figuring out all the stuff on their own, I wish I was one of them. But I know my limitations and am unwilling to go back into motorcycle tech training at my age. Plus, I really don't like turning wrenches anymore.

glnewbe
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:10 pm
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200 Aspencade

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby glnewbe » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:25 pm

To Big-Bob & twostrokes48; I have had some of the same thoughts regarding instructions on the conversion and I emailed "poorboy" a couple days ago regarding price and shipping and have not had any reply. My wing is sitting waiting for repairs as thee riding season slips away in Alberta. I have some mechanical ability but I do not look forward to removing the engine in a garage at -30 degrees this winter. I would like some advice on what alternators are best suited for this conversion with out grinding away the case or cutting massive amounts of the fairing on the bike. I have seen the instructions on this forum for grinding this and that, but I don't see any instructions about where and how you attach the brackets for the alternator. Perhaps it is self evident when you remove the fairings.

Big-Bob
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:54 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
2001 XT225
2002 Vulcan 750
2009 Ninja 500

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby Big-Bob » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:52 pm

Not to me it isn't, and I am fairly mechanically inclined. I bought this bike as a scrap heap and spent over 6 weeks getting it back into running condition. It needed everything but major engine work. I even had to fabricate parts for the fuel injection, because some of the parts I needed were no longer available.

But I read what instructions there are for this kit, and they make no sense at all. It starts out talking about grinding the horn bracket a certain way, but shows a picture of the upper fairing main mount. On the LTD, the horn brackets are down at the very bottom of the fairing lowers, behind the cornering lights. There is another kit made by Dupli-Tech that looks a lot cleaner, but it it is very expensive and will not fit on the LTD because the alternator mounts to the timing belt cover replacement in the kit, right in front of the head, where the cornering lights are on my bike.

Larry3609
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:57 am
Location: Syracuse, New York
Motorcycle: 1985 gl1200a aspencade

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby Larry3609 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:12 am

I dont know what the problem is with the last comments, I built the kit my self from the info that i got on this site and had no problem and i am not the greatest mechanic, but went to a machine shop and they made the pulley shim i needed for 25$, made the rest of the parts myself from the info here had a couple trial and errors but work the kinks out and everything went together and have put 6k on the bike with no problem, in fact I will be doing my sons 86 aspy at the end of riding season. I have an 85 aspy.

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twostrokes48
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:21 pm
Location: San Antonio,TX
Motorcycle: 98 Goldwing 1500 trike
75 GL1000 (restoring)
98 Goldwing with landing gear (for sale)
94 Goldwing 1500- towpac trike (sold)
88 Goldwing 1500- (sold)
84 GL1200 Aspy-SOLD
75 GL1000(stolen 87)
88 GW trike (totaled)
1972 750k2

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby twostrokes48 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:38 am

The alternator that I used is a Chevy Mini Denso Rod Race 1-wire 8162 sold by DBElectrical on ebay. They have a store on ebay, You can search it out. It is a 50amp alternator. I had to do no grinding or modifications to it at all. I think my mech had to come up with some other spacers in lining it up to the belt correctly, but nothing major. I will say this, it wasn't an easy job. My mech is a good engineer type mech and it took he a couple days to figure out and install all this stuff. It is a good thing he is a friend too. He usually does everything "time and material". I showed him an email I got from the guy that sells it saying he could complete the kit installation if about 4 hours, but that first timer would take about 8. So my mech just charged me $500 and ate all the time he put into it. His normal rate is $70/hr so he did me fair.

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tricky
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Location: Canada

Re: poorboy conversion

Postby tricky » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:39 am

twostrokes48 wrote:So my mech just charged me $500 and ate all the time he put into it. His normal rate is $70/hr so he did me fair.


Gees no wonder I am not rich, I have done several conversions for friends free..... they of course supplied the parts.




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