Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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fastf
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Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby fastf » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:27 pm



I have been reading and myself had seen what not enough voltage the stators and rectifiers on my 1200.But has anyone ever tried comming out with a heavier made stator that produces more amps to run more lights and such and a cooler running rectifier?Alot of people don't want change to the poor boy conversion and want to keep it original.It seems to me with the tech out there why hasn't been tried?Anyone knows of someone ever doing this the forum would like to know.



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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby dingdong » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:10 am

E-bay. Don't know about the quality. Says high output but no specs given.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-High-Output ... es&vxp=mtr
Tom

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:27 am

A lot of the problem is simply physics: To make a heavier stator, you need thicker wires in the coils, and potentially stronger magnets. You still need the same number of coils - but being that the wires need to be thicker, you can't physically fit them in the space that Honda allocated for the stator to live.

As for the regulator/rectifier being hot - there's really not much you can do about that - it's SUPPOSED to be hot, as that's how it regulates the voltage. The stator works at full output at all times, and the regulator turns the excess power into heat. The only way around that is to replace the stator with an alternator that has a primary winding instead of permanent magnets. This is far more efficient, which is why people go the Poorboy route in the first place.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby detdrbuzzard » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:34 am

you can use a stator ( 500w vs 350w ) from a 1200 with fuel injection. it will take atleast the stator cover an some modding to fit but you'll still have the same stator problems as any other 1200 wing
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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby fastf » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:22 am

I have a 1200 LTD but what gets me there are motorcycle companies that still use the stator/rectifier set up.Do they also have stator and rectifier problems and why hasn't someone come up with something that will up the amps with out using the poor boy set up.I want to keep my 1200 original as possible not saying it isn't a good idea and it saves you from pulling the engine but I just ain't ready for it yet.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby detdrbuzzard » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:11 am

fastf wrote:I have a 1200 LTD but what gets me there are motorcycle companies that still use the stator/rectifier set up.Do they also have stator and rectifier problems and why hasn't someone come up with something that will up the amps with out using the poor boy set up.I want to keep my 1200 original as possible not saying it isn't a good idea and it saves you from pulling the engine but I just ain't ready for it yet.

most parts on a motorcycle are made to be light weight and small as possable so ststors were only made big enough to do the job. all the extras we like to add were not on the minds of the manufactures at the time
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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby Mooseman » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:29 pm

I have replaced my stator twice. The first one was a piece of junk made in China.....go figure.
The second one was from Rick's motorsports. Made in the USA.
Here is the link.
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com ... 5HTDEyMDBB

MY regulator/rectifier was also replaced with one from Rick's
So far I have been pleased. The quality was much better than the first.
Enjoy the ride. They are all good, just some better than others.
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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:16 pm

It takes horsepower and bulk to produce electric.Manufactures design electrical systems to match the needs at the time.If you want to "ADD ON " extra draw on the system , the best way is to conserve in another area.For every amp you want to drain from the system ,it must be compensated by alleviating that same drain that exists by the existing design.
With this in mind , about the only thing that can do this is to convert as much as necessary to LED lighting.
Under the very best conditions,for the first 10-15 minutes , my 1100 and 1200 completely max out the charging system(10.7 amp for the bike and 15.2 to the battery).As the battery returns to a full charge,drawing 3-4 amps,and the bike(original condition) drawing 10.7 amp , leaves only about 100 watts left over to play with.Not even enough to run 2 driving lights.
Sooooo,I LED's as much as I could afford to and freed up an additional 70 watts.Now the driving lights will run,as long as I don't turn them on for the first 10-15 minutes till the battery recovers.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:46 pm

virgilmobile wrote:It takes horsepower and bulk to produce electric.Manufactures design electrical systems to match the needs at the time.If you want to "ADD ON " extra draw on the system , the best way is to conserve in another area.For every amp you want to drain from the system ,it must be compensated by alleviating that same drain that exists by the existing design.
With this in mind , about the only thing that can do this is to convert as much as necessary to LED lighting.
Under the very best conditions,for the first 10-15 minutes , my 1100 and 1200 completely max out the charging system(10.7 amp for the bike and 15.2 to the battery).As the battery returns to a full charge,drawing 3-4 amps,and the bike(original condition) drawing 10.7 amp , leaves only about 100 watts left over to play with.Not even enough to run 2 driving lights.
Sooooo,I LED's as much as I could afford to and freed up an additional 70 watts.Now the driving lights will run,as long as I don't turn them on for the first 10-15 minutes till the battery recovers.


Most people don't know that. Keep in mind when you say 10-15 minutes, that's 10-15 minutes of actual on-road riding - not sitting idling, or at stop lights. Below 1500-2000 RPM or so, the bike is actually using the battery to run the bike, as the engine is not producing enough power to run everything.

A 1000, 1100 or 1200 left sitting idling for a long time will eventually quit from a dead battery. The same is true for most cars, particularly if the heater (fan) or A/C is running.

I remember driving home from a vacation in Northern Ontario on a long two-lane highway, and there was a horrible crash involving a fatality up ahead. They closed the highway for almost three hours. Being that we were in the middle of absolutely nowhere, and there were no other routes to take, the only option was to sit and wait until the police cleaned up the mess and re-opened the highway. The line of cars was miles long.

A lot of people sat in their cars with the A/C running. After a couple of hours, the majority of them had dead batteries and dead cars. When the road was opened up again, I got my jumper cables out and probably boosted 30 or more cars (women first, of course - especially the attractive ones) to get them running again.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:39 pm

It's happened here too.Usually tho,some Cajun will turn it into a tailgate party. :lol: Were ready for anything.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby wrightwing » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:18 pm

I would like to run a couple 35 watt driving lights, are those a good choice/bright enough, or would a modulator be a better choice ? I would also like to replace the reflectors on the saddle bags, and the one on the rear with working lights I have seen on line, total of three. Would replacing turn/brake bulbs with LED's help to compensate for the extra power draw ?
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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby fastf » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:52 pm

I know we are working with 1970's and 1980's tech surely someone needs to come up with conversion for these older bikes.I read some is experimenting with a programable computer for the 1200 injected.Take a look at a car made in the forties and one made today forties used a generator and now we have alternators and the alternators are smaller and produce a lot of amps so if it can be done with a automobile why not bikes some wiz kid hasn't thought about it yet or bought a 1200 and the stator played out and left him on the side of the road.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:46 pm

wrightwing wrote:I would like to run a couple 35 watt driving lights, are those a good choice/bright enough, or would a modulator be a better choice ? I would also like to replace the reflectors on the saddle bags, and the one on the rear with working lights I have seen on line, total of three. Would replacing turn/brake bulbs with LED's help to compensate for the extra power draw ?


Yes. I replaced all running/brake lights with LEDs on my 1100, and I run both a set of 35 watt driving lights AND a modulator, along with 10 or 12 more aftermarket LED lights on the back. The 1100 stator is able to handle this with no problem.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:35 am

fastf wrote:I know we are working with 1970's and 1980's tech surely someone needs to come up with conversion for these older bikes.I read some is experimenting with a programable computer for the 1200 injected.Take a look at a car made in the forties and one made today forties used a generator and now we have alternators and the alternators are smaller and produce a lot of amps so if it can be done with a automobile why not bikes some wiz kid hasn't thought about it yet or bought a 1200 and the stator played out and left him on the side of the road.


My car has a 45 amp alternator...when you do the conversion..45 amp X 12 volt =540 watts.
746 watts = 1 horsepower.
That horsepower is driven from the crank pulley through a belt to the alternator.The belt is designed to withstand the load requirements needed by the alternator,AC,water pump and so on.
The 1000,1100 and 1200 have no such available drive mechanism that can be attached to. You still need to draw power from the engine from some rotating shaft.
Some will attach a external pulley to the cam to run a external alternator,called the poor boy conversion.I hear it works,however I would be concerned about the extra load it puts on the timing belt.
The 1500 engine design alleviated this by engineering a suitable coupler to the external of the block to attach a alternator to.

So "we just engineer around the restrictions of the original mechanical design.
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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:09 am

virgilmobile wrote:Some will attach a external pulley to the cam to run a external alternator,called the poor boy conversion.I hear it works,however I would be concerned about the extra load it puts on the timing belt.


I've seen a couple designs that run the alternator from the cam pulley, that's an exceptionally bad idea, for the reason you state. The well-known GL1200 "Poorboy" conversion drives it from the crank pulley, to avoid this problem.

GL1200 Poorboy alternator conversion
GL1200 Poorboy alternator conversion

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby detdrbuzzard » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:11 am

poorboys kit is not driven off the camshaft but the crank and is driven by its own pully off the crank not a timing belt pully
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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby fastf » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:10 am

What i'm getting with technology advancing like it is why can't someone come up with a conversion that is internal like the stator.I know the stator is bathed in oil But why not a alternator that replaces the rectifier and stator both and works in the stock engine case like the stock.Well I guess why go through that trouble and just put a poor boy well like I said a lot of people don't want to cut up their bikes to make something work they want to keep it stock and you can quote that too.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:34 am

fastf wrote:What i'm getting with technology advancing like it is why can't someone come up with a conversion that is internal like the stator.I know the stator is bathed in oil But why not a alternator that replaces the rectifier and stator both and works in the stock engine case like the stock.Well I guess why go through that trouble and just put a poor boy well like I said a lot of people don't want to cut up their bikes to make something work they want to keep it stock and you can quote that too.


There's simply not enough room in there. Stators are reasonably compact because they have a set of coils and some spinning magnets. Alternators are larger because they replace the spinning magnets with another set of field coils, and those coils have to be larger than the magnets. You also need brushes/commutators in order to transfer the power to the field coils. The stator that's in there is already crammed into a tiny space. There's no way you'd get an alternator in there that would put out anywhere near enough power.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby fastf » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:02 pm

You mean to tell me it can't be done.Then you must not remember how big computers were.I say anything can be done that has been proven someone has just got to want to.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby detdrbuzzard » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:09 pm

fastf wrote:What i'm getting with technology advancing like it is why can't someone come up with a conversion that is internal like the stator.I know the stator is bathed in oil But why not a alternator that replaces the rectifier and stator both and works in the stock engine case like the stock.Well I guess why go through that trouble and just put a poor boy well like I said a lot of people don't want to cut up their bikes to make something work they want to keep it stock and you can quote that too.

withe the age of our bikes its not worth anyones r&d money to make with the limited sales they would have
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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:41 pm

fastf wrote:You mean to tell me it can't be done.Then you must not remember how big computers were.I say anything can be done that has been proven someone has just got to want to.


OK, can't practicably be done. With some exotic materials, perhaps highly-conductive gold wiring instead of copper, maybe supercooling to allow high amperage to flow through thinner wires at low resistance...it is within the realms of physics. But do you really want to pay five times the value of your motorcycle for a stator?

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:07 pm

fastf wrote:You mean to tell me it can't be done.Then you must not remember how big computers were.I say anything can be done that has been proven someone has just got to want to.


Anything can be done if you throw enough money at it.....But that's just it.
It's a decision between a costly redesign or suitable cheap modification.
And we still have to work within the laws of physics.
And yes,I've seen the "ENIAC" computer.Talk about BIG.It weighed about 30 tons :shock:

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby wrightwing » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:20 pm

Thanks for the reply WingAdmin. I got caught-up in the whole stator thing when I posted. By the time I realized, it was to late, should have started another topic :oops:
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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby fastf » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:07 pm

Also the rectifier why not put a small fan to cool it down? You can take anything electronic in this world and take it to one of these countries that produce mass electronics.So I guess with time in order to keep the electrics going poor boy conversion will be the way.But someone with a lot of time might be tinkering with just what we are talking about.No one would have thought about putting electronic ignition on bikes and fuel injection too a few years ago it wasn't even heard of.

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Re: Making A Heavier Stator and Rectifier for 1200 Goldwing

Postby Mooseman » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:00 pm

I have often thought of puting a fan on the regulator/rectifier. I have several computer cooling fans and they all use 12 volts. I did put some thermal compound that is used to help transfer heat from the cpu to the heat sink. I put it on the back side where it mounts aginst the frame. I have often wondered if the r/r gets too hot especialy when it's over 100 outside and the battery is charged.
Still a thought in progress.


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