How do you measure.....


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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Dogsled
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How do you measure.....

Postby Dogsled » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:49 pm



I am getting ready to re-install my back wheel and I was a bit concerned at how much movement is in the wheel dampers. Between the rubber and the insert (not from sline hub to wheel) I put my finger on themetal insert and it moves aroundmore than I would have thought it should have. I don't have alot of anything as far as feeling goes when the bike is taking off, noise or lash. How do you know when these things are worn beyond keeping the system nice and tight. With my luck i'll nedd them because I was sittin around waiten for the other OEM stuff to get here and now i'll wait twice as long. Any experienced insight on this and how to know when to change them out would be appreciated


"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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cbx4evr
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby cbx4evr » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:11 am

I don"t think it's something you need to worry about. How many miles on the bike?? I've never worn out a set of dampers on any bike.
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

raycw
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby raycw » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:15 am

Well… I disagree with the 'you don't have to worry about it cuz I've never worn out mine' idea.

Every time you accelerate hard or de-accelerate using engine braking you are putting wear on the final drive damper set. Finally, after many thousands of miles they will wear out.

If you've got the wheel on the bike, put it in first gear and rotate the wheel by hand. If you have more than 2" of front-rear play you've got 'some' play.
Over 3" play and it's time to install new dampers.


this is assuming you've got a 90-2000 model…. 88 and 89 have the dampers as part of the wheel and are NOT easily replaceable.

If you do decide to replace the damper set… Look at Honda Direct Line online parts…. check out 98-2000 GL1500SE and then go to the rear wheel.
You can get all the dampers in a set for what 2 cost on the 91 model. They are all the same… just getting a better 'set' deal on the newest models.

Dogsled
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby Dogsled » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:46 am

I don't mind paying to replace them, I did see that honda Line fiche and the set price. Ron Ayers wants 32 bucks for a set of the rubber (I assume you put in the old sleeves which fit nicely) I'll put it on and see how much play I get out of it. I was sitting there looking at them and wondering how in the hell I know when it's time to change them in a methodical way so I was sure they were bad or going bad.
I know what CBR is saying tho, I've asked others and they say what he says "they never had a set go bad". It's like there should be something you can mic or measure and go 'yup, they're worn out'. I never saw a new pair so I don't know what the difference is between mine. You can't go to a dealer and look at them cause you gotta order everything. Also, as I said I have no noticible lash in the wheel when taking off or actually anytime. If I end up getting a new pair (and it looks good for that). I'll do some measurements and test comparing them. Istill got planty of winter left to experiment and order. Thanks for the input
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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WingAdmin
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:40 am

raycw wrote:Well… I disagree with the 'you don't have to worry about it cuz I've never worn out mine' idea.

Every time you accelerate hard or de-accelerate using engine braking you are putting wear on the final drive damper set. Finally, after many thousands of miles they will wear out.

If you've got the wheel on the bike, put it in first gear and rotate the wheel by hand. If you have more than 2" of front-rear play you've got 'some' play.
Over 3" play and it's time to install new dampers.


That's not a good way to measure lash caused by dampers. By measuring lash (free play) between the rear wheel and the engine, you're actually measuring a combination of:

- Engine to transmission gearing lash
- Transmission gearing lash
- Final output spline lash
- Universal joint lash
- Driveshaft lash
- Pinion gear lash
- Damper lash

...all added together. So even if you do get x amount of free play, who's to say it's the dampers at that point? It could be a combination of any or all of those items added together.

If you want to measure the lash in the dampers, you must remove the wheel, fix the wheel so it won't rotate, and rotate the driven flange against the wheel. If you're getting excessive movement there, then you can attribute it to worn dampers.

That said, the Honda service manual doesn't specify limits for damper wear - it simply says, "Replace the rubber dampers if they are damaged or deteriorated." To me, that says, "if they look good, then don't bother messing with them."

raycw
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby raycw » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:57 am

No, there's no consistent way to measure for excessive play in the dampers. But…. considering that it's 'the best way' without removing the rear wheel I stand by my post.

There's a lot of potential play that is between the transmission and the rear wheel. Fortunately, from experience, there are 2 points of wear that we need to be most concerned about: the driveshaft/u-joint and the rear wheel dampers. Given that the driveshaft/u-joint wear, if properly lubed, should be minimal… the rear wheel dampers are left.

Dogsled
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby Dogsled » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:44 pm

I went over my buddy's to change the tire and he had an old wheel and a replacement he got on e-bay. He also ordered new ones and there were 2 reasons. One was that the rubber on one set was hard as the steel inserts (my guess dryed out and not fllexible) the next set which was off of his original were loose like mine. He said from what he has seen in the past this excessive loose play wears the splines on the wheel itself (so I assume in the differential too). He had it apart only because he wiped out a wheel bearing and caused all the damange.
I don't see anyones answer r point brought up here as being wrong seeing as there was nothing in the service manual to tell us what's right. Everything I read sounded like experience and it gives me alot more things to look at and think about. So thanks and if you think up anything else put it out there, i'll gobble it up.
BTW, I ordered a new set from Ron Ayers for 32 bucks so it's a sit and wait for the part game now.
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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heidebill
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby heidebill » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:17 pm

My two wheels worth of wisdom, If it is going to cause you one moment of worry while you are riding, pay the 32 bucks and enjoy the ride, Bill

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Okayamapiper
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby Okayamapiper » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:10 am

On my first ST1100 I did not replace the dampers for the first 100,000 miles and ended up rounding off the splines to the gear the rim mounts to. As Honda sold the rear drive as a unit, I sold my ST for parts and got another. As dampers are not that pricey you may want to swap them out just for the peace of mind. I know that when my wing gets to 60,000 miles she is going to get a set.

Dogsled
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby Dogsled » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:00 am

Okayamapiper wrote:On my first ST1100 I did not replace the dampers for the first 100,000 miles and ended up rounding off the splines to the gear the rim mounts to. As Honda sold the rear drive as a unit, I sold my ST for parts and got another. As dampers are not that pricey you may want to swap them out just for the peace of mind. I know that when my wing gets to 60,000 miles she is going to get a set.


Well said, That is EXACTLY what happened to my buddys bike. I tried to explain it but you said it spot on. He was lucky and bought a whole differential with the wheel and everything. Now he's even having trouble with little things on that because he 'thought' parts looked good. He felt the play in the damper rubber and it was nice and tight. What he didn't check (or think of) was the fact that the were as hard as steel and had no buffering give. he had it apart for something else and luckily caught it. I forgot my camera, he had all of his stuff apart. I could take pics of mine but how well will a loose shim show up in a rubber damper on camera.
I sat and thought about a newer bike but the closer I get to a cleassic the more I like the thought. I saw a newer 1800 and the electronics were beyond my comprehension of ever thinking I could work on it.
I do like the ST's too. I am negotiating for a Ducati Panigale right now, keepin my fingers crossed.
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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Bogator
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Re: How do you measure.....

Postby Bogator » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:23 am

I'm with HIEDIBIL on this ---if you are in doubt ---replace----peace of mind goes a long way---whats that you say??----WHAT MIND???-------------------LOL ----RIDE SAFE---


GOD BLESS


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