Front speakers- a little electrical question


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liquineer
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Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby liquineer » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:42 am



I have fully integrated the rear speaker kit that was on my bike but not actually connected as mentioned in previous posts,so now I have good sound front and back and can adjust the balance..
Before that a PO had run a two sets of white twin core cables to connect the front speakers to the back speakers, which barely gave out any sound at the rear.
As I was about to cut the wires away at the front just under each pocket, I thought it would be a good idea to retain enough wire so that If I wanted to connect an alternative radio/MP3 player or the like in to the system, but wired up independently (I subsequently purchased a set up from Roger Gerson) I could use those connections to take sound to the front speakers.
My query is this- as the cable is white twin core with no stripe down one wire to diffrentiatate it , I need to know which goes to the plus speaker connector and which goes to the minus. Now I could take apart the assembly around the speakers and physically see which wire goes to which terminal, but I hope someone on here has a smarter idea of checking it electrically using a meter, I don't have any reason to take that area of the bike apart at the moment, so would rather avoid doing that.
It is one of those "electricals 101" questions again, but those of you who have worked on their wings regularily over the years will probably have some good suggestions, and in reality does it actually matter if I just make a guess? (I am sure it does as the speakers would not have differentiated terminals.)
As usual anything you can think of will be welcome.
Thanks

Martin


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Sempai
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby Sempai » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:23 am

I think you're stuck here. IF you really want to know which wire is positive and which is negative, you'll have to gain access to the speaker's terminals. REMOVE one wire from one terminal and test for continuity from that end to the ends under your pocket, the one that has no continuity will be the one still attached to the speaker. Bad news here is, you'll have to perform the same procedure to the other side IF you want to be certain of + or -.
On a lighter note, in this particular application, you can interchange positive for negative and vice versa without any noticeable affect.
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liquineer
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby liquineer » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:44 am

That's what I thought, just hoping someone would have a brillaint way of doing it- I might have a go at plugging in the wires, see what happens and swap around if necessary.

Still open to further suggestions from anyone else .
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:35 pm

Hook it up one way, play some music. Then reverse it and try again. When it's hooked up correctly, the music will sound fuller, with better bass. When it's hooked up with one speaker backwards, that speaker will be out of phase, and the music will sound strange - kind of tinny. It's hard to describe, but once you've heard out-of-phase sound, you'll know exactly what it sounds like.

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redial
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby redial » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:05 pm

but once you've heard out-of-phase sound, you'll know exactly what it sounds like.


It will probably sound a bit like a recording being played backwards. :lol:
Len in Kapunda

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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby liquineer » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:23 am

Thanks WingAdmin, that is helpful, I was not sure how to detect which was the right or wrong sound, but your description is great- will go ahead and try that out.
I have already wired the two sets of cables in to a disconnect plug assembly, so I can try hand connecting the speaker wires from the new system into the wires in the female half of the plug and then I can make permanent connections once I have figured it out.
So- the power of more minds on the job has saved me a heap of dismantling work.

I will let you all know thw outcome once I have tried out the connections.
Martin
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby liquineer » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:23 am

Well today I got around to checking out the front speakers with my i-pod as the sound source, and the pre-amp I got from Roger. It worked well and I think I have figured which wire is which to get the cleaner sound- I had labelled wrongly the wires which identified what went to which speaker, I had labelled one pair as left speaker, when they were right speaker wires, and apart from the temporary hooking up of the amp to a 12v source using a multi voltage DC output adaptor plugged in to the AC mains electricity I have a system that will allow me to use an MP3 player/ Sat Nav and play it through the front speakers, and thanks to the kind generosity of a UK winger, I have a system that will also allow me to have a phone and MP3 player/Sat Nav plugged in to a helmet headset (which he also donated to me) , independently of the Goldwing headset, so I have more options than you can shake a stick at. Just have to set up the HD radio, that Roger also supplied, in to the trunk and I will have a mobile multi radio, satnav, mp3 choice of options for the future.
I am working on these now as I am triking the solo bike very soon, after a nasty scare recently when manouvering the bike manually around the obstacles on my driveway,(rubbish bins, and a caravan and a flower bed along the side) when it almost fell on top of me- luckily I was able to catch the bike with my body weight, but I was a bit in pain afterwards. The silly part also was I was on the other side of the bike to the centre stand and the side stand as I was trapped by the caravan, and no way to get around the bike to use them. I managed finally to get the side stand out by bracing the bike against my legs and leaning over enough to get my fingertips on the side stand bar and move it bit by bit to get it into position, then I could lever it back on to the side stand and then get around it to get the centre stand up. My legs and arms still feel the effort required to keep it upright, so I am giving in to my age (just turned 65) and getting a three wheel, legal in the UK, option.
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby Fiberthree » Thu May 02, 2013 12:02 am

If you can see the speaker you can use an AA battery to check the polarity. Connect one wire to the + side of the battery and while watching the speaker, tap the - side of the battery with the other wire. Notice which way the speaker jumps (backward or forward). Mark the + side with a sharpie and then do the same test to the other speaker. Make sure the speaker jumps the same direction as the first one and then mark the wires accordingly. You can then correctly phase your speakers. The AA battery will not hurt the speaker and the current flow through the voice coil windings will interact with the North/South poles of the speaker magnet allowing you to determine the +/- of your speakers. If you ever made a magnet with wire wrapped around a nail and connected to a dry cell battery then you will understand the concept.
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby liquineer » Thu May 02, 2013 4:43 am

Yes I understand that, and in my time I have built many electrical devices, but it is a simple question, just forgot how to do it after so many years - that is an easy test, thanks.

Martin
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby willemb » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:38 pm

Hi Gentlemen
Excuse me intruding, but I have a problem with my rear speakers. It is 1995 Asp.
I have followed a couple of postings on this as well as other forums and still cannot figure out how to resolve.
The PO connected the rear speakers directly to the front speakers using the original wiring harness which is suppossed to be under the left fairing pocket (front speakers) and under the seat (rear speakers). He removed the electrical plugs and used twin core wire to connect the speakers. He wired the right front to the right rear and did the same on the left.
There is no sound from the rear speakers and no fader installed.
Any suggestions on fixing the sound.
Thanks for a great forum.

Willem

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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby Fiberthree » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:13 pm

Do you know for certain that the rear speakers are good
Ed

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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby willemb » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:19 am

Tx. I will surely hook up some good ones on the rear connections and see if I get any sound.

I think thats the only way to find out if they are still in working condition.

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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby SidAbma » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:28 am

When I am not Muted and I turn the handle bars Mute shows up on the screen and of course I lose volume. I can often reach down and wiggle the cluster of wires and the radio will un mute. In town with a lot of cornering I often just mute and turn up the volume. Any ideas?

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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby Sempai » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:42 am

Any and all metals will eventually break when they're bent back 'n forth all the time. You're suffering from at least one broken wire in the bundle that goes from your left handlebar controls to the bike's frame.
You have a couple options here. Peel the over jacket away from the bundle right there in the area that flexes when you turn the bars, do the wiggle/jiggle test to each wire until you find the one at fault...if you look in the service manual you can speed this up by identifying which single wire it is by color code. After you find the faulty wire, try to locate the point of failure and repair that area, or just replace as much of it as you feel comfortable with as far as what you've exposed. HOWEVER, this will only fix the one wire, and the others are probably not far from failure either!!!
You could replace the whole wire assembly there, but if it's like the other side, you'll have to buy the switch assembly, but knowing that all the wires are in good shape may be worth the money!
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:08 pm

It's not going to be a broken wire, it's going to be a shorted wire. Specifically, the blue/black wire is getting shorted out to the green/black wire - this is what happens when the mute switch is turned on. You've likely had a couple wires get pinched at some point, and now its conductors are exposed.

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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby Sempai » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:12 pm

WingAdmin wrote:It's not going to be a broken wire, it's going to be a shorted wire. Specifically, the blue/black wire is getting shorted out to the green/black wire - this is what happens when the mute switch is turned on. You've likely had a couple wires get pinched at some point, and now its conductors are exposed.

I concur with W.admin's assessment. The repair strategy I suggested still applies to locating the issue and fixing/replacing the problem wire(s.)
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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby SidAbma » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:17 pm

Is the "boot" that the cluster of wire run through easily pealable?

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Re: Front speakers- a little electrical question

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:47 pm

SidAbma wrote:Is the "boot" that the cluster of wire run through easily pealable?


No. Almost impossible, in fact. When faced with opening those up, I usually use an extremely sharp knife, and carefully slit it lengthwise to open it up. When done with repairs or whatever, I will use self-vulcanizing rubber tape to seal it back up again.




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