FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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KEVS89WING
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Motorcycle: 1989 GL1500 Goldwing

FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Wed May 22, 2013 9:35 pm



Here is the background on my 1989 GL1500! (I bought this Goldwing after it was stored 6 years in a shed!!)
Hey all! UPDATE. Well, I bought a pair of long 16 inch needle nose pliers from Harbor freight tools, And Wolof! I got the hoses all on correctly and the air box down on tight. So now I have put on two timing belts, replaced the coolant with Honda coolant, new spark plugs, engine oil and filter, Brand-new brake pads, flushed all of the brake fluid through the lines And got all of the rusty brown brake fluid and clutch fluids gone and replaced with fresh new clear dot four fluid, Recharged the K and N air filter, Put in 4 gallons of 93 octane premium gasoline, And Then I did the shaft drive oil with new 80 weight oil, And then the moment of truth. Put in a brand-new battery, And hit the starter. It cranked freely however no spark. Then I read on your website here about the reverse and neutral light situation with the solenoid at the reverse lever. I sprayed some cleaner in there worked the lever back and forth and Waaloa I got a neutral light, However still no start! Read more articles here and found out to check the fuel relay. I jumper it and still no fuel pump. The fuel pump had no power, so I pulled the old one out and it was a rusty gunky mess, So instead of paying $359 for a new fuel pump, I found on here where I could get the Napa one for $70 and the strainer from Napa also. I ordered those and it will 10 days be 10 days as they come from Tacoma Washington. AFTER I GET THAT FUEL PUMP IN I WILL PUT IN MORE FUEL AND HOPEFULLY THIS PUPPY FIRES RIGHT UP. THE ONLY THING LEFT ARE THE CARBS. IF THEY ARE GOOD, I WILL PUT 100,000 MILES ON THIS OLD GIRL BEFORE I HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO IT!!
I just got a voice mail today from NAPA that my fuel pump is in!!! Tomorrow, Thursday the 23rd of May, I will go pick up the pump and strainer and install it and try to start the bike.... MY QUESTION: If the bike still gets no fuel, where EXACTLY, are all relays or fuses that affect power to the fuel pump? I know about the large one behind the right saddlebag... are there any others? That will be the next task if the brand new fuel pump does NOT prime the carbs (that have been inactive for 6 years, unstarted) THANKS!!

Read more: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16847#ixzz2U4vtB0Jz


1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

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virgilmobile
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Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 22, 2013 9:44 pm

One very simple question..
Do you now have spark...???
No spark,no fuel pump volts.
There are other things that can ultimatly kill pump power too.
The kill switch and the bank angle sensor.
Check for spark first and we can guide you to the next steps

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KEVS89WING
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Thu May 23, 2013 9:59 am

PUT THE FUEL PUMP IN AND IT FIRED UP!!! HOWEVER... As it idles, gas is running out of a tiny hose (one of three) under the right side, just below the foot brake! There are three tiny hoses, and largest of the three has gas continuously running out of it :( If this new pump pushes fuel into the carbs faster than the old stock one, isn't there a "return" fuel line in place to take extra fuel back to the tank?? I can't ride until the gas stops squirting out like a severed artery!!
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

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virgilmobile
Posts: 7659
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 23, 2013 10:19 am

There is no return line...it's a drain hose.

The tiny hose is connected to the bottom of the carbs...a screw is loosened to drain the bowl...one may be loose...They can be acessed from behind the radiator....It's dark in there and very difficult to locate but it can be done...I've had to use a 18" screwdriver to reach it.
This is a picture from another post.The carb is out of the bike for the picture but it gives you it's location.

If your pump pressure is the right one,look at these posts....

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13696

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KEVS89WING
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Thu May 23, 2013 9:45 pm

Thanks for that info! I will attempt to get to the drain screws in the morning (after I go buy a LONG screwdriver at Harbor Freight!) A couple guys at work said it could have a float stuck.. is that possible from sitting for 6 years?
Another problem... It wont idle (even when warmed up) without the choke on. As I take the choke down, it stalls, and without the choke on, any gas from the throttle will kill the engine too. Any ideas on that? If the carb bowls are draining, could the engine be running out of fuel without the choke on?
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

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virgilmobile
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Fri May 24, 2013 8:12 am

This is a lot to digest.....Considering all you mention,I would attack it in this way.

The small (1/8") tubing on the right side of the engine is a float bowl drain not a overflow drain
It should have gas in it only when the drain screws are opened up.

The carb does have a overflow drain too....I believe it's a larger(3/8") tube on the left side of the bike.If your floats stuck,you would have gas hemorrhaging on the left side.

As far as the running problem....Let's do this one step at a time.....
1...stop the drain.
2...run a dose of your favorite snake oil (Sea Foam) in the fuel in hopes it will clear the jets..
Not idling without a "choke" is a classic example of the slow speed jets plugged up.

I did have good luck with one trick...I had one carb plugged from contamination....
I opened both drain screws...Took compressed air with a nozzle and blew it into the 'joined' vent tube that's right in front of the fuel shut off valve....
You could spray some cleaner in there too and blow it through....Tighten the drain and try it again.

On my 88 I ended up having the hand service the carbs....It was very time consuming.

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virgilmobile
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84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Fri May 24, 2013 8:23 am

Just another side note...When I got my 88,it had set up in a garage for 4 years....kept clean,never started...
After repairing the seized brakes,it would not idle without the choke...and then the minimum was 1500 rpm....anything below that and it would die....
I had to pull the carbs 3 separate times to fix all the problems and modify it so the bike would run properly.
Just be prepared that sprinkling some pixie dust on it may not magically fix the bike.
Mine fought me tooth and nail for a long time but I did learn where the most common problem areas are and what to do about them.
Obviously, I did one repair and tested the bike again....Identified the next problem and fixed that one....This took me 3 months and one full day each time the carbs had to come out....So if you HAVE to pull the carbs for service ,I can point at things to look for.....

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ct1500
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby ct1500 » Fri May 24, 2013 9:00 am

KEVS89WING wrote:Here is the background on my 1989 GL1500! (I bought this Goldwing after it was stored 6 years in a shed!!)
Hey all! UPDATE. Well, I bought a pair of long 16 inch needle nose pliers from Harbor freight tools, And Wolof! I got the hoses all on correctly and the air box down on tight.


We will make a 1500 mechanic out of you yet Kev. :D

Take that air box back off as you are now going to start digging into the carbs. It is OK to run with it removed for testing and diagnostic work including short rides around the block. Just make sure you plug the vacuum line on bottom left side when doing so.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

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KEVS89WING
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Fri May 24, 2013 10:15 am

Wow, thanks for the GREAT INFO on my carb issues. UPDATE: 5-24-13..
The fuel leak/draining has STOPPED on its own after sitting over night! Next:
It still won't idle without the choke on, and now it stalls at even the SLIGHTEST blip of the throttle. I made an appointment for June 4th to have a local bike shop pull and rebuild the carbs. He said 170 to 190 in labor and between 100 and 200 in parts depending on the extent of the rebuild of each carb. SO.... I have less than 2 weeks to try the sea foam or compressed air route to see if I can clear them myself. I don't think I have the guts to pull them myself, so I will try sea foam first!! I will keep you all posted! Your expertise on this sight is immeasurable.
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

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virgilmobile
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78 GL1000
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83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Fri May 24, 2013 10:52 am

Be aware that the "shops" price seems cheap....Even now,it would take me at least just under 2 hours just to get the carbs out and on the bench,2 hours to service them and 2 hours back.

Unless his shop rate is $40/hr....expect it could be much more....

This probably won't include inspecting/replacing the common failing vacuum lines that plague the 1500's of this vintage either or verifying the factory upgrades have been done for it's hesitation problem...The manual section addresses this.

Mine did not have this upgrade and I had to "fix" it my own way.

I'm not trying to put the hebe gebe on you....just be aware that it can become one of those...."by the way,I need more money and time to get it to run because it needs more stuff we didn't know was bad"
Be careful....It's won't be the shop's fault if the bike shouldn't run right after the carb is serviced...especially if there is another problem....

Oh,by the way...I was nervious as a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs the first time I pulled mine off...It passed after the first 4 hours and 3 bandaids. :lol:

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KEVS89WING
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Fri May 24, 2013 11:03 am

Virgil, great advice, and I am definitely listening... I will see if my courage builds after the sea foam.. :)
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

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virgilmobile
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Fri May 24, 2013 3:15 pm

keep us informed on the bikes progress.

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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby ct1500 » Fri May 24, 2013 3:20 pm

If the quote was PER carb, X2 on above numbers the shop would be in the ball park price wise. :?:
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Fri May 24, 2013 4:27 pm

Thats kinda my idea.The show will "start" at near $400 for carb rebuilding.Thats the estimated minimum and priced aboit right.
I get concerned about the "by the way" after its in the shop and disassembled.Cost can rise quickly if it needs more extensive work.
Have you ever been able to do just a carb repair on a 88-89 wing and have it run perfect?
Maybe..its never happen to me.

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KEVS89WING
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Sat May 25, 2013 10:55 pm

UPDATE:
SATURDAY, 5-25-13
I put in 1/3 can (about 6 ounces) of Sea Foam today with about 4 gallons of 92 octane fresh gas. And after starting it and running it (on the power of the choke) at about 2k rpm for a few minutes (it wont idle any lower), I turned it off for an hour to let the medicine work. I then started it up again, and the rpms revved freer and easier (in the higher range), however, it was a bit stumbly and still would not idle without the choke. I let it set another hour or so to let the sea foam soak, and really didn't get any better results. However, I can now get it to rev (with the choke on) by blipping the throttle at high revs. It sounds very lean at the top, so I will wait till tomorrow and start it again and see if any of the gunk flushes out and maybe it will idle. I think it will be going to the shop on the 4th of June for a full carb rebuild.
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

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KEVS89WING
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Sun May 26, 2013 6:10 pm

Well, today it won't even run with the choke... Sea foam set overnight, and today it will barely start. I am gonna drain the tank, and do the vinegar rustout, and put some fresh gas to get it ready for the bike shop, if I keep messin with it, I am gonna burn up my battery and starter. Oh we'll, I tried. I don't have the confidence to dig in to the carbs myself. Very scary. Thanks for all the info to this point!!
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

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virgilmobile
Posts: 7659
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Sun May 26, 2013 8:57 pm

Question.... do you have a air compressor with a air nozzle?
I'm thinking that the Sea Foam loosened up the gunk and now has plugged all the fuel passages.....
I have loosened the drain screw and blew a boat load of air into the crossover tube and cleared the stuff out.
I had one Carb low speed passages plugged and this worked well.

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KEVS89WING
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Sun May 26, 2013 10:39 pm

Yes. I do have an air compressor. Ok. If that had a good result for you, I will try it. I am assuming I can get in there to the line? I will check that out in the morning. Just a quick question... Would a CLEAN running bike run with sea foam in the tank? Cause if it would, then you are probably correct about loosened stuff moving and clogging it up. I will experiment a bit in the morning before my 12:00 holiday cookout :) Thanks for that info, and the encouragement as well!
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

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virgilmobile
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Previously owned
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81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Mon May 27, 2013 8:57 am

Sea. Foam is a good cleaner and should be used in the proper mixture.A clean system won't be hurt by it's use.
On my 88,just in front of the gas cap area,there is a metal "T" connection.You could spray a bit of brake cleaner in there and blow a bunch of air in it,with both drain screws open.
You might be suprised what comes out.

SchueGeorge59
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby SchueGeorge59 » Tue May 28, 2013 9:05 am

Hey Kev,
If you do not get good results from flushing and blowing out the carburetors while in place, you may want to stick with your plan of having them serviced. The carbs themselves are not complicated but getting them out can take a range of tools that most people do not have laying around. I have the benefit of collecting tools for 25 years as a special machine builder in the Tool and Die trade and I used a lot of specialty tools to remove and disassemble the carbs on my '90. Watch Who You Have Do Your Work. I have a local Honda shop about 10 miles away from me but I would not have those guys touch my bike even if it died right in front of their dealership. There was Always something else wrong that needed to be fixed by them to drive up the price from an original quote. Unfortunately for the local shop, I now take my bike to a dealer that is about 45 miles away as their work quote is Always in writing before they start and Nothing outside of the original scope of work is done unless I am contacted before proceeding. I also get all old parts back in a bag. Keeps them a little more honest. Even if an old part has a core charge they can hold it till you pick up your bike.
I have had the pleasure (???) of doing this about half a dozen times now. Twice on my bike, three buddies bikes, and once to pull mine again to replace the coils. I got it down to 50 minutes out, 2 hours on a bench and about 1:20 in. Like Virginmobile said, getting them right the first time is a bear. I have made notes on my printed manual of different tools I have used since I did mine the first time and yes, it took twice to get right the first time I did it. Always Replace the Seals. They are cheap compared to my time and mental frustration from a possible leak.

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KEVS89WING
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Wed May 29, 2013 10:24 am

ShueGeorge, If you were in Ohio, I would pay you to do mine. Oh we'll, today I finished the white vinegar treatment of the fuel tank, and OH WHAT A DIFFERENCE now! Unbelievable what vinegar will do to rust. I have put in a couple gallons of fresh premium in (again) and she is ready for the shop. I am finished working on it myself and I concede to the carbs. I have done all if the maintenance I am gonna tackle. I hope the shop keeps it under $400 like he estimated, and hopefully they come out right. Maybe I will get lucky. It idles (high around 2k rpm) now with the choke only again, but any less choke and it dies. Thanks for all of the education here. I will be a lifelong member from now on as I plan on piling up 100k miles or more in the next 10 years and will return weekly (or daily!) for tips, advice and expertise. I will post the results of the carb rebuild when I get it back next Wednesday (I am dropping it off June 4th)
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

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virgilmobile
Posts: 7659
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 29, 2013 10:54 am

While it's in the shop...Mention about inspecting the vacuum hoses...Some have a tendency to deteriorate at the sharp 90* bends.....Don't forget the one that's under the rubber mat below the carb body..It hides a hose down there too.
Here's a few pictures you might share with the mechanic....The more information he has prior to repairing your bike,the better the results.
As far as what you describe now...It sounds like the slow speed jets are plugged up.....

And by all means...offer him the http://www.goldwingdocs.com web site too....Even seasoned mechanics find helpful information here.....

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KEVS89WING
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Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Thu May 30, 2013 7:03 am

Fantastic. That is what I will tell him. I will show him the pics also. Thanks for the assistance in getting my machine up and running again after TOO MANY years unridden! Next update: Wednesday June 5th (the shop date is June 4th, not June 2nd).
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

User avatar
KEVS89WING
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 6:53 am
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Motorcycle: 1989 GL1500 Goldwing

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:11 pm

Well, I dropped the machine off yesterday at the cycle shop for the carb rebuid, and he called me this afternoon (Wednesday) and told me it is done, and runs great now! I was on my way to work when he called today, so I couldn't get it today. I told him I would pick it up tomorrow (Thursday) Now remember he told me the estimate would be be around $400 for the carb rebuild. And most people on this site said that there's no way he could do it for that cheap and GET IT RIGHT. So I asked him how much money I should bring for the bill. And he said he wasn't sure he would total it up tomorrow. So we shall see tomorrow at 9:00 am when I go get it. I will post it tomorrow how much he charged me. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will be the price he said and he said it would be $400 as an estimate. More to come tomorrow
1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!

User avatar
KEVS89WING
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 6:53 am
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Motorcycle: 1989 GL1500 Goldwing

Re: FUEL RELAYS IF NEW PUMP DOESNT WORK?

Postby KEVS89WING » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:33 pm

GOT THE BIKE BACK! It runs beautifully! It has some very slight idle fluctuation, and the mechanic said that is because I have some EGR issues, but it should clear up with some RIDING OF THE BIKE. So I rode it 10 miles home flawlessly, and boy does this baby run strong with lots of responsive torque and power! Ok, now for the price on the BILL. According to the itemized bill, I got charged for CLEANING CARB times 2, 2 FLOAT NEEDLES, and 2 SEALS, plus labor... And the total?? $239!! I realize that he didn't give me a complete rebuild of the carbs, but isn't 239 a great price? Please feel welcome to chime in here, because I think I have found my lifelong Goldwing mechanic!


1989 GL1500 Goldwing, loaded
71,000 miles
RESCUED ON 4-24-13 FROM A 5 YEAR NAP IN SOMEONE'S SHED
Maintenance completed: EVERY fluid, every filter, timing belts, fuel pump, and carb rebuild! As of 6-7-13, SHE IS UP AND RUNNING like a smooth beast now!


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