'88 carbs


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twostrokes48
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'88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:34 am



Carbs have been gone through and bike now runs fine (almost). I can gradually roll out the throttle and she will run smooth as glass right up to red line....but if anywhere along the way, if I punch it full throttle it bogs down. Any ideas?? Do I need to make some mod to the carbs to fix this?? I know the 88/89's had carb issues.



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virgilmobile
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:29 am

The 88/89 did have fuel control issues....Read about it in this factory recall...
http://goldwingdocs.com/Docs/Honda%20Go ... -70CE0.pdf

Mine did not have this done so I ventured into it myself....I did not replace the ECM or CCM modules but instead concentrated on the carbs...Mine had separate issues to resolve including....
Off idle hesitation (very bad and dangerous)
Poor throttle response during acceleration (really doggy like yours)
Stumbling in the 2500 rpm range..

I attacked each one separately...one at a time...4 times out of the bike...2 months mucking with it.

It sounds like you have only one of these problems...Doggy hard acceleration so I would look at the accelerator pump first...I have a video on mine and my solution...

***Just adjustments or a pump diaphragm replacement MIGHT cure your troubles.****
Take it one step at a time before you "mod" anything....Check the accelerator pump operation.
This can all be done without completly removing the carbs....
Here's one post...viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11658
There's several posts about the gl1500 hesitation problems and fixes....Everybody has something different so there are different fixes for each problem....It's a process of elimination.
You have to,and obviously do understand the requirements of the engine as far as the carbs are concerned...It's just identifying what is wrong....
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16041
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12557

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twostrokes48
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:37 pm

UPDATE on carb. issue. It appears not to be a carb. or vacuum issue.
When I had my 88 trike, I was having carb problems. I had ordered a carb off ebay, but before it arrived, my mechanic had fixed my other one. I remembered the carb was still in the box I received it in in the garage. So I took it to my mechanic who has had the bike for awhile. It is off I think was a 91. Anyway, went through the 91 carbs to make sure they were complete and everything was in good order, then swapped out the carbs. He says, bike still has same problem. Runs smooth as glass, as long as you never punch it full throttle. When you hit it hard, it bogs down.
Any ideas??? if it isn't carbs, what could it be?? He is running out of ideas.

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Andy Cote
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby Andy Cote » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:44 am

Clogged fuel filter.

Weak fuel pump.

Hole in fuel cutoff diaphragm.

Bad vacuum line to fuel cutoff valve.
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virgilmobile
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:11 am

When you 'punch it' two things happen.A rush of air enters the plenum and the fuel mixture increases proportionately.
In 1st and 2nd gear,the ignition timing is electronically controlled.3rd and up its controlled also with vacuum.
Air shot valves do not operate till 1500 rpm.
This leads me to one of two things.Either a air flow problem or a weak accelerator pump action.
When you went through the carbs,did you bench test the slide action and fill the carbs and check the accelerator pump squirt.?

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Re: '88 carbs

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:59 am

virgilmobile wrote:When you 'punch it' two things happen.A rush of air enters the plenum and the fuel mixture increases proportionately.
In 1st and 2nd gear,the ignition timing is electronically controlled.3rd and up its controlled also with vacuum.
Air shot valves do not operate till 1500 rpm.
This leads me to one of two things.Either a air flow problem or a weak accelerator pump action.
When you went through the carbs,did you bench test the slide action and fill the carbs and check the accelerator pump squirt.?


I was going to say the same thing. It's not going to be restricted fuel flow from a filter or bad fuel pump, because the float bowls will have enough fuel in reserve to easily supply what is needed. So either the fuel is not getting there in time (it's getting lean, because no accelerator pump functionality), or there's insufficient air.

You already said that you can smoothly roll on the power right up almost to red line - I am assuming that this is under load, and not while just sitting in neutral. If you can smoothly accelerate to full open throttle and the bike runs fine, then air supply is not your problem. In which case we are down to one thing: accelerator pump.

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Re: '88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:40 pm

The accelerator pump is what was the reason to tear into the carbs to begin with along with getting at and checking all the vacuum hoses. So that was checked out on both sets of carbs before reinstalling either of them. He checked all that and went through and cleaned and rebuilt the original carbs and put them back in. Under load, it is smooth as long as you don't really punch it. So he went through and checked out the 2nd set of carbs., installed them and has exactly the same problem. Things like fuel filter already been replaced. He will be back at it this weekend. He doesn't get much time to look at it. Sheeesh, was hoping for a quick fix so I could get this up for sale as it's just an extra bike at this point.

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twostrokes48
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:41 pm

Andy Cote wrote:Clogged fuel filter.

Weak fuel pump.

Hole in fuel cutoff diaphragm.

Bad vacuum line to fuel cutoff valve.


Andy, will mention these things to him as well, that havn't been checked already.
tks

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twostrokes48
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75 GL1000(stolen 87)
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:44 pm

Also forgot to answer the question about punching it. Yes, that is under load, moving down the hwy. It will run up to 100 easy, as long as you don't try to do it in a quarter mile.

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Re: '88 carbs

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:09 pm

twostrokes48 wrote:Also forgot to answer the question about punching it. Yes, that is under load, moving down the hwy. It will run up to 100 easy, as long as you don't try to do it in a quarter mile.


Then none of these are your problem - if they were, you'd be chugging along and losing power under heavy load:

Clogged fuel filter.

Weak fuel pump.

Hole in fuel cutoff diaphragm.

Bad vacuum line to fuel cutoff valve.


I hate to say it, the only thing really left is the accelerator pump. Can you see it actually squirting fuel in when you open the throttle quickly?

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twostrokes48
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:19 pm

I'm going to pass all this to my mechanic tomorrow if he makes it to his shop. I do trust him as a mechanic as I have been using him for about 10 years now for a number of different things with motors and he has always found and fixed the problems at what I consider a reasonable cost. (if there is such a thing). So we will see what else he can figure or fix. Thanks all for the input. Will let you know the next update.

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Re: '88 carbs

Postby amsoilguy » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:48 pm

While we're waiting on an update on this, I want to thank Virgil, ct and others for sharing their repair experiences...it's a huge help for those of us just starting to attack these issues.

Question for Virgil: I've read most of your posts about your issues and fixes, did your idle surge or pulse prior to your initial tear down? I don't recall seeing that mentioned. Thanks.
Allan

'88 GL1500

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virgilmobile
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:15 pm

It probably had that problem too.when I got it,the bike wouldn't run without the "choke" on and then only at 2000 rpm.
The carbs were really messed up besides all its other trouble.
I just did the hoses as a preventive strike.They were ready to go south,and one under the mat did break through.

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Re: '88 carbs

Postby amsoilguy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:16 pm

Another question for Virgil:

You added an 'O' ring to your piston slides to open them up a few mm. Do you know about what diameter size 'O' rings you used and where you might have picked them up? This is just in case I end up having to do the same accelerator pump mod that you did. Thanks.
Allan

'88 GL1500

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virgilmobile
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:35 pm

It was a generic o ring in a $7 kit from harbor freight.
I just dug till I found one that fit.I think it was a out 3mm thick.
Don't remember the code number on the box tho.
It isn't critical.all it needed to do was fit tight on the slide and keep it from closing all the way.

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Re: '88 carbs

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:43 pm

I try very hard to mod or repair my bikes that I post about with easy to find parts.
It benifits others that may not have a extensive supply of stuff to work with.
That's why I buy test equipment and parts from Wal mart and local auto supply stores.
Most everyone has one nearby.
Even the "o" ring could be fitted from a local napa supply.

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88 GW trike (totaled)
1972 750k2

Re: '88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:24 pm

How much noticeable pressure should there be on the fuel coming out of the fuel pump, is it pretty much free flow to the carbs? Fuel pump seems to be pumping ok, but with no noticeable pressure....sheeeesh...this is getting to become very annoying. It is running lean for sure when you punch it...but each thing that could be the problem, seems to check out fine. (and that is on either carb setup in place). Is there any change in the fuel pumps from 88 to the later models? Thought about swapping out the fuel pump with either my 94 or my 98 if they are the same. Anyone know if there is any difference? I'm beginning to understand on why I got such a good price on this bike....seems the seller may have known something about this problem and just "FORGOT". Don't know..but it is getting old by now....

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Re: '88 carbs

Postby bstig60 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:49 pm

I believe the fuel pump pressure should be 2.5 to 3 lbs. You should be able to shut it off with your finger, but you should feel some pressure.
Bill

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twostrokes48
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75 GL1000(stolen 87)
88 GW trike (totaled)
1972 750k2

Re: '88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:22 pm

ok, thanks for that info, will pass it on. Starting to sound like fuel pump probably not the problem either if it operates on that low of pressure.

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twostrokes48
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88 GW trike (totaled)
1972 750k2

Re: '88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:03 pm

Well, it seems the fuel pump could be the problem. My mech. hooked up a small electric low pressure fuel pump, rigged it so he could ride, and said it is running great, no bogging when punched. Soooooo...looks like time to put it back together.

Next question......should I spend 150 or so for a used fuel pump..or let him rig that one up in a permanent position and use that setup....Anyone know a downside to using a non honda fuel pump??? Quick answers please as I want to get this baby up and running...but at the same time, running right.

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ct1500
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby ct1500 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:48 pm

A fuel pump pressure gauge needs to be teed into fuel line, normal pressure is 2psi. There is also a flow test in manual which should also be done. Auto fuel valve needs to be bypassed (tee fuel hoses together) to eliminate that, fuel valve should also hold vacuum with no leaks and no loss of vacuum while riding which would close valve reducing fuel flow.

If you have the psi (road test) and flow, fuel pump is not the issue, I would be looking at carb slides as that circuit is the one to add extra fuel under heavy loads/larger (faster) throttle openings.
This is what I do
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redial
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Re: '88 carbs

Postby redial » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:22 pm

I felt for your plight and went looking on Mr Google. This site:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_electric-fuel-pump-mr-gasket_5400317-p?navigationPath=L1*14932|L2*14986#fragment-4

shows that their particular fuel pump delivers about 2.5lbs pressure, and costs about US$48, (dont know if there are any plus plus plus features to that price). It would appear to be a simple solution, but you might also like to inquire about pressure limiting valves as well as a return circuit. (I am more familiar with diesel than this application.) HTH
Len in Kapunda

The world is not going to finish today, as it is already tomorrow in Australia and New Zealand, and other islands of foreign nations such as Guam and Samoa.

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twostrokes48
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88 Goldwing 1500- (sold)
84 GL1200 Aspy-SOLD
75 GL1000(stolen 87)
88 GW trike (totaled)
1972 750k2

Re: '88 carbs

Postby twostrokes48 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:07 pm

Well,
we are both at our wits end....when he tests things they test good. The fuel pump was weak. I have bought a replacement which is pumping plenty of fuel. The Complete carbs have been changed out to another set that had been completely gone through before installing. So the carbs have been replaced, the fuel pump has been replaced, all the vacuum lines have been checked for leaks, fuel filter replaced, air filter replaced. timing belts were checked, yet still idles smooth, runs smooth with slow to med advance of throttle, but don't dare do a punch to git it up to speed quickly or to do a hard pass. She bogs, sounds like a fog horn and won't catch until you back the throttle off and advance it slowly. All of this defies logic. I am totally fed up with this crap. If ammo wasn't so expensive right now, I swear I would just use it for target practice.

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Re: '88 carbs

Postby bstig60 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:52 pm

The symptoms would indicate accelerator pump not doing its job. Another thing that comes to mind; perhaps you are getting too much fuel and flooding the cylinders.. Have you checked the condition of your plugs immediately after it bogs down? I mean with it bogging, hit the kill switch and check the plugs>>>>>>


Bill


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