Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...


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Kemoloney
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Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:18 pm



Okay, with the help of Virgilmobile, I was able to figure out my turn signal problem so I decided to start working on my reverse issue early. Please note that I have converted my 92 Interstate to an Aspencade. I have all the harnesses, relays, sensors etc. switched over so there are no issues with missing components. Here is what is going on with it:

I start the engine while in neutral. I engage reverse by pulling up on the handle. The neutral light goes out and the reverse light lights up. I push in the start button and I can hear the starter making a whirring noise like its spinning but no wheel movement. While the starter is spinning, the engine idles down. I then spun the rear wheel and it is locked in place and will not move while reverse is engaged. When disengaging the reverse handle, the rear wheel moves free again. So it appears that the system is working and that it is not an electrical problem but instead a mechanical problem. As a side note (likely unrelated to the reverse issue) when I turn the ignition off with the key, the engine keeps running. It only shuts off with the on/off switch. Where do I begin with the reverse issue and what would cause my engine to continue running after turning off the key? Thanks in advance for all who help.



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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:15 pm

Okay. I aligned the marks for the reverse according to the service manual and the rear wheel still doesn't move when I press the start button while the reverse lever is engaged. I have a question. When the reverse is not engaged, how freely should the back wheel spin? Should it A. spin easily like wheel of fortune and keep spinning after you spin and let go or should it B. be a little bit difficult to turn and not spin freely when you let go, like there's some friction there? Because mine spins like B. and I'm wondering if that would cause it not to move when pushing start. I have brand new pads on the rear caliper and they havent been broken in yet. I have never had reverse on a bike before so I don't know how things are supposed to be. Hope someone out there has a solution. This feature was my primary motivation to convert to an Aspencade.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby dingdong » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:30 am

No clue about your reverse problem however the when spinning the rear wheel you are also turning the rear drive gears and the drive shaft and having to overcome the brake pads. B is the winner.
Over at the Saunders site there is a guru who recently did the same conversion you have. His name is Dave0430 I'll bet he can answer your question.
Tom

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:09 am

dingdong wrote:No clue about your reverse problem however the when spinning the rear wheel you are also turning the rear drive gears and the drive shaft and having to overcome the brake pads. B is the winner.
Over at the Saunders site there is a guru who recently did the same conversion you have. His name is Dave0430 I'll bet he can answer your question.


Thanks a bunch for your input. I'll contact Dave and see what he knows.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:04 pm

This may help on the electrical problem...

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:47 pm

virgilmobile wrote:This may help on the electrical problem...
sw.JPG


Okay. I think I understand this. I will give it a try when I get home and report back with my results.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:01 pm

Kemoloney wrote:
virgilmobile wrote:This may help on the electrical problem...
sw.JPG


Virgil, the voltage check was normal. 12v with the key on, 0v with the key off. I pulled the #8 ign/cruise relay and found no changes. The bike started with or without it in and still, the bike won't shut off with the key. Only with the stop/run switch. Any other thoughts on this?

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:23 pm

I wonder if the ignition switch on an Interstate is different than on an Aspencade. I wouldn't see why it would be but maybe that needs to be ruled out as well.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:28 pm

Kemoloney wrote:I wonder if the ignition switch on an Interstate is different than on an Aspencade. I wouldn't see why it would be but maybe that needs to be ruled out as well.


Nope. The part numbers are the same so that's not it.

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I to A Conversion... Reverse & shutdown problem

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:37 pm

As for the engine shut down problem, I want to add a little more detail about what its doing. When I turn the ignition key on, the dash lights come on, the warning lights momentarily and all the exterior lighting; headlight, tail light, side marker lights and front running lights. When I start it up all is normal and everything stays on as it should. When I turn the key to off position everything stays on...all the same lights and the engine. When I turn the off/run switch to off, everything shuts down including engine and lights. Let me add that everything shuts down with the unless the engine has started. For example. From a total off position, I can turn the key to on and everything lights up, then turn it back to off and everything goes out. I can even turn it to on and bump the start button and as long as the engine hasn't actually started, everything will shut down when turning the key back to the off position. But once that baby fires up all 6 of them beautiful cylinders, the key becomes useless in any position. Hope this helps someone help me to diagnose it.

I do wonder if the ignition system is tied to the turn signal cancel unit which is not yet installed. Maybe once that C90 connector is terminated, with the cancel unit, it will return to normal. I can look at the schematic but may not be able to decipher it. I just have never been good at reading schematics and always wanted to take a course on it.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:17 pm

I think the kill switch has 2 wires on it.reverse them where they plug into the harness.
I got a funny feeling that something is back feeding the switch.
I think there is another internal connection attached to the switch.
When the started , the alternator is running the bike.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:45 pm

virgilmobile wrote:I think the kill switch has 2 wires on it.reverse them where they plug into the harness.
I got a funny feeling that something is back feeding the switch.
I think there is another internal connection attached to the switch.
When the started , the alternator is running the bike.


Gonna go out and try it right now.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:54 pm

virgilmobile wrote:I think the kill switch has 2 wires on it.reverse them where they plug into the harness.
I got a funny feeling that something is back feeding the switch.
I think there is another internal connection attached to the switch.
When the started , the alternator is running the bike.


Ok I'm a little bit confused. Do you mean that you want me to alter the pins in the connector as in removing the pins and reseating them opposite of what they are now? How would I go about doing that? Shouldn't it be wired in the connector correctly from the factory?

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:14 pm

Kemoloney wrote:
virgilmobile wrote:I think the kill switch has 2 wires on it.reverse them where they plug into the harness.
I got a funny feeling that something is back feeding the switch.
I think there is another internal connection attached to the switch.
When the started , the alternator is running the bike.


Ok I'm a little bit confused. Do you mean that you want me to alter the pins in the connector as in removing the pins and reseating them opposite of what they are now? How would I go about doing that? Shouldn't it be wired in the connector correctly from the factory?


I disassembled the right control switch and swapped the 2 wires on the kill switch and the results were the same.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:21 pm

Ok ill admit it.Im goin from memory.all I've got here is my phone.
Look at the schematic to be sure but I think I remember that one side of the kill switch also goes to the alternator.If for some reason the 2 wires are different the alternator would be feeding the wrong side of the switch.
Somehow this sounds farmiliar.Seems I ran into this before and I can't quite remember exactly.
Before you swap the 2 wires,unhook the switched wire on the alternator.not the big one,the little one.Try it again.
It sounds like after its started the alternator is running the bike,back feeding Into the switched circuit.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:27 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Ok ill admit it.Im goin from memory.all I've got here is my phone.
Look at the schematic to be sure but I think I remember that one side of the kill switch also goes to the alternator.If for some reason the 2 wires are different the alternator would be feeding the wrong side of the switch.
Somehow this sounds farmiliar.Seems I ran into this before and I can't quite remember exactly.
Before you swap the 2 wires,unhook the switched wire on the alternator.not the big one,the little one.Try it again.
It sounds like after its started the alternator is running the bike,back feeding Into the switched circuit.


I think I get what your saying about the alternator running the bike. I'm just trying to understand why the key won't kill the engine...what is making the alternator override the ignition key switch? Could it possibly be a bad relay not doing its job? You know, I was thinking about that small wire coming from the alternator. I think it's a pink wire. I will disconnect it and see what happens.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:43 pm

Bingo! Yahtzee! We have a winner! I disconnected the wire from the alternator and it now shuts off with the key. Great memory Virgil. But I stand corrected. It's not the pink wire. It was a blk/grn wire. So now the question is...do I just leave this wire disconnected and will there be any adverse effects such as the alternator not keeping my battery charged? You don't have to answer that tonight. I'm just glad you figured it out. THANK YOU! You're my new best friend :D

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:47 pm

The blk/grn wire goes directly to relay 6 in the relay box. I checked that relay earlier after looking at your diagram and it seemed to have continuity. I'll have to check it again tomorrow morning.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby virgilmobile » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:21 am

It's morning coffee.I still am poking at my phone here.
I think I'm getting carpel thumell. :D
The little wire on the alternator should "take in" power not put out power.
It's possible that the regulator in the alternator is shorted and its powering the ignition system.

Still going from memory.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:34 pm

virgilmobile wrote:It's morning coffee.I still am poking at my phone here.
I think I'm getting carpel thumell. :D
The little wire on the alternator should "take in" power not put out power.
It's possible that the regulator in the alternator is shorted and its powering the ignition system.

Still going from memory.


Don't hurt yourself hen pecking on that phone Virgil. So do I need to replace the alternator then?

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:44 pm

Well I figured out the reverse problem. I pulled the starter and sure enough...the gear inside is broken. :evil: I assume that I need to pull the engine in order to fix it???

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby virgilmobile » Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:19 pm

I think it can be repaired still in the frame.So I've read.
As far as the alternator,you'd first have to verify the switched wire.Does it go on and off with the key after the bike is started?
With the wire unhooked,turn on the key,verify with a test light that it is switched.Start the bike and shut it off with the key,verify the wire goes dead.
Same procedure at the alternator.As I recall,that is a input terminal.There shouldn't be any volts there running or not.If there is,replace the alternator or the internal regulator part.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:51 pm

virgilmobile wrote:I think it can be repaired still in the frame.So I've read.
As far as the alternator,you'd first have to verify the switched wire.Does it go on and off with the key after the bike is started?
With the wire unhooked,turn on the key,verify with a test light that it is switched.Start the bike and shut it off with the key,verify the wire goes dead.
Same procedure at the alternator.As I recall,that is a input terminal.There shouldn't be any volts there running or not.If there is,replace the alternator or the internal regulator part.


Okay, I will do some testing on the alternator situation sometime this week once I get a test light. As for the reverse idle gear, from everything Ive read, the engine needs to be pulled. If you can find data on this being replaced with engine in frame, I would love to review it. Pulling the engine is such a task but if that's what it takes, then that's what I'll have to do because I definitely want reverse.

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Re: Interstate to Aspencade Conversion. Reverse problem...

Postby Kemoloney » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:40 pm

I'm gonna put all testing on hold for now until I get the engine pulled, replace the broken reverse idler gear and reinstall the engine. Thank you for leading me in the right direction.




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