Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500


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Kemoloney
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Motorcycle: 1997 GL1500A with SE Enhancements

Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby Kemoloney » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:51 pm



Okay, I posted this on goldwingfacts and am waiting for responses so I thought I would post here also, hoping to find answers to my questions...both sites are so helpful with so many intelligent goldwing owners that I can't distinguish the difference in knowledge and expertise of both sites.

My newly acquired project bike which is a 97 Aspencade had 2 broken exhaust manifold studs; one on each side. I was able to cut off the right side stud, drill and retap the hole and install a new stud. I then of course, installed new copper gaskets and then put the exhaust manifold back on.

The left cylinder head however, is a different story. When pulling off the outer cover to inspect it, it appeared that someone tried getting that stud out before and mucked it all up. My questions are this, will one broken stud cause exhaust/performance problems if the rest of the studs are okay. Meaning, can I go with five properly torqued studs (6-7ft.lbs) instead of all six. The broken stud is the one located on the left towards the front of the bike and at the back of the head. When first starting the bike after repairing the right stud, it sounded ok but as it warms up, it is boggy and hesitant and sounds like it has some exhaust noise. Like there is a lot of air when reving it. Not that tight and powerful sound of a good running bike. Hard to explain. Okay it sounds like an old truck.

I have a spare low mile left cylinder head that is in good condition that I can use to swap out the existing head with. If I do go that route, I have a couple of questions:

1.) what is the easiest why to replace the left cylinder head? The shop manual mentions pulling the timing belts, the crank, etc. which seems to make sense if its the right head being pulled but why would you have to go through all that for the left head? Couldn't you just carefully slide the left timing belt off, remove the head with the pulley left on it and replace it with the new head (which still has the pulley on it)? Then line up the timing marks on the left head pulley, slide on the timing belt and voila...done deal? Or would that just be too easy?

2.) When installing the head, I know I will need to install a new head gasket regardless of how good the old one looks but do I also need to replace the intake manifold gasket or could the existing one be used?

Any insight would be appreciated. I plan to do the swap (if necessary) this weekend so I'll need to order the parts first thing Wed morning to get them here by Friday.

Kevin



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robb
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Re: Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby robb » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:54 pm

I would not replace a head because of 1 bad exhaust bolt. If the other 5 bolts are to torque it should be OK.

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waituntilthebeep
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Re: Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby waituntilthebeep » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:01 pm

My answer is no... It may stay relatively tight until it warms up but the manifold will warp and it will leak(sound like an old truck). If you can't extract the bolt, your idea of replacing the head is a viable one. I'd go to extremes to get the bolt out though. From my experience, if you understand the mechanics of it, the manual is only ONE way of doing the job. Now, I don't advocate deviating from OEM processes for the most part but in the case of the head, if you can get it changed out without removing the crap from the front end... AND... get it all timed back up properly without damaging the belt, go for it. I never reuse a gasket either. Been in the trades too many years to trust it. Do it 100% in the beginning and the results will be solid for a very long time.

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Kemoloney
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Re: Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby Kemoloney » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:15 pm

robb wrote:I would not replace a head because of 1 bad exhaust bolt. If the other 5 bolts are to torque it should be OK.


waituntilthebeep wrote:My answer is no... It may stay relatively tight until it warms up but the manifold will warp and it will leak(sound like an old truck). If you can't extract the bolt, your idea of replacing the head is a viable one. I'd go to extremes to get the bolt out though. From my experience, if you understand the mechanics of it, the manual is only ONE way of doing the job. Now, I don't advocate deviating from OEM processes for the most part but in the case of the head, if you can get it changed out without removing the crap from the front end... AND... get it all timed back up properly without damaging the belt, go for it. I never reuse a gasket either. Been in the trades too many years to trust it. Do it 100% in the beginning and the results will be solid for a very long time.


Okay so I'm getting two different answers here. The broken stud problem on the left side doesn't appear to be repairable. What I meant by mucked up on the left side is that they cut the bolt off and tried to drill it out but misaligned the drilling. Part of the stud is still in there and if I drill it all the way out, the hole will be too large for the honda stud to fit in there.

I only use genuine honda replacement parts and am aware that I need a new head gasket. My question was, do I need a new intake manifold gasket since the intake manifold needs unbolted from the top in order to remove the head. I also was questioning the procedure of removing the left head because removal of the crank (which is located on the right side) seems unnecessary. I do try to follow Honda shop manual procedures but in this case, the manual doesn't differentiate the removal process of the left from the right head which is utterly rediculous since both heads are NOT the same with regards to a crank running through them. The crank runs through the right side. The left side only houses a pulley which can remain on the left head when removed. I still need to know if the intake manifold gasket needs replaced in addition to the head gasket. Just trying to save unnecessary pennies if you know what I mean.

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robb
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Re: Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby robb » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:43 am

Kemoloney wrote:do I need a new intake manifold gasket
It is wise and easy to gently lift intake runner to install.

Kemoloney wrote:I also was questioning the procedure of removing the left head because removal of the crank (which is located on the right side) seems unnecessary.
Crank is in center of engine, only cam pulley up front in heads.

Kemoloney wrote:if you can get it changed out without removing the crap from the front end
Ain't going to happen, front must come off. If belt would slip off it is bad and needed replacement. But most importantly it is the rear belt and tensioner must be removed at avert any damage. Next is the two dowel pins that line the head, enough that head needs to be pulled straight off, not at an angle. Have replaced hundreds of head gaskets over last 50 years, cheap repair for resale. If there are more than 50k on bike I would recommend both heads, I new 1 old can lead to failure.

This is a Goldwing not a Chevrolet. It's interlocked like tinker toys and a sequence of events must take place for repair. As an owner who does all repairs I could not justify such a task for 1 bolt. The exhaust will expand and contract, if there is no damage to pipes it should be OK with 1 bolt missing. Steel stud in an aluminum head, easier to drill out and tap to next larger bolt size if it bothers you that bad.

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Kemoloney
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Re: Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby Kemoloney » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:31 pm

robb wrote:
Kemoloney wrote:do I need a new intake manifold gasket
It is wise and easy to gently lift intake runner to install.

Kemoloney wrote:I also was questioning the procedure of removing the left head because removal of the crank (which is located on the right side) seems unnecessary.
Crank is in center of engine, only cam pulley up front in heads.

Kemoloney wrote:if you can get it changed out without removing the crap from the front end
Ain't going to happen, front must come off. If belt would slip off it is bad and needed replacement. But most importantly it is the rear belt and tensioner must be removed at avert any damage. Next is the two dowel pins that line the head, enough that head needs to be pulled straight off, not at an angle. Have replaced hundreds of head gaskets over last 50 years, cheap repair for resale. If there are more than 50k on bike I would recommend both heads, I new 1 old can lead to failure.

This is a Goldwing not a Chevrolet. It's interlocked like tinker toys and a sequence of events must take place for repair. As an owner who does all repairs I could not justify such a task for 1 bolt. The exhaust will expand and contract, if there is no damage to pipes it should be OK with 1 bolt missing. Steel stud in an aluminum head, easier to drill out and tap to next larger bolt size if it bothers you that bad.


Well now you leave me to think that I should just go with the 5 bolts that are in there and leave the head alone. Thanks for your knowledge.

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Kemoloney
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Re: Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby Kemoloney » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:49 am

I decided to replace the head and now I have a ticking noise. I have started a new thread for this. Any help would be immensely appreciated. Here is the thread link...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19198

cuyler2
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Re: Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby cuyler2 » Sun May 04, 2014 1:04 pm

how much is head bolt torque and pattern for gl1500. just spent all my money(her money) on gl1100 manual.

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robb
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Re: Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby robb » Sun May 04, 2014 2:22 pm

33 ft lbs in 3 step process.

8 - 2 - 3 - 5
6 - 4 - 1 - 7

cuyler2
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Motorcycle: 1980 gl1100, 1984 gl1200 aspencade,1989 gl1500 1983 gl1100 building

Re: Broken stud and head replacement question for GL1500

Postby cuyler2 » Sun May 04, 2014 2:35 pm

thank you very much. somehow pay you back one day as i have been through a lot an am now building custom 1980-84 nakeds.




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