PROBLEM with ????


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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TAZZ
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Del Rey CA
Motorcycle: 1997 Honda GL1500se
1968 Honda CL350 Scramble,
1970Honda 750k,1976 Suzuki GT550,
1979 Kawasaki 1000st, 1983 Suzuki GS1150se
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R
1981 Honda CBX (not for sale)
1982 Honda GL1100 Aspencade 1994 Yamaha700

PROBLEM with ????

Postby TAZZ » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:28 pm



Hi All maybe you can help or tell me what's going on here or has any off you had this problem before. My 97/1500se with 72,220 miles on it The other day me and wife went for a ride to Santa Barbara Ca is about 125miles from home all going good then on the way back home about 30 or 40 miles from home on PCH going up a slight slope with about Quarter tank of gas the bike start to loose POWER I give more GAS nothing so as I'm rolling down the highway I open my gas cap and the bike picked up speed. It ran good for about another 5 or 10 miles and it does it AGAINI open gas cap again and it picked up speed again. So I stop and filled it up with gas and rode it home no problem getting home. So I wanted to see if my fuel pump is going out so I have ran TWO FULL TANK of gas down until the RED FUEL LIGHT come on and I have NOT lost power at all. What's going on here is it the fuel pump or something else ??? and yes I changed the fuel filter about 4,000 mile ago. PS I get BETTER HELP from you GUYS than the HONDA thank guys.



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WingAdmin
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:43 pm

sugarbella wrote:Hi All maybe you can help or tell me what's going on here or has any off you had this problem before. My 97/1500se with 72,220 miles on it The other day me and wife went for a ride to Santa Barbara Ca is about 125miles from home all going good then on the way back home about 30 or 40 miles from home on PCH going up a slight slope with about Quarter tank of gas the bike start to loose POWER I give more GAS nothing so as I'm rolling down the highway I open my gas cap and the bike picked up speed. It ran good for about another 5 or 10 miles and it does it AGAINI open gas cap again and it picked up speed again. So I stop and filled it up with gas and rode it home no problem getting home. So I wanted to see if my fuel pump is going out so I have ran TWO FULL TANK of gas down until the RED FUEL LIGHT come on and I have NOT lost power at all. What's going on here is it the fuel pump or something else ??? and yes I changed the fuel filter about 4,000 mile ago. PS I get BETTER HELP from you GUYS than the HONDA thank guys.


Clogged valve inside the gas cap.

Take the gas cap off, buy some Seafoam, dump the Seafoam in a small bucket, and submerge the gas cap in the Seafoam overnight. It should dissolve whatever deposits are clogging up the vents in the gas cap and fix your problem.

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TAZZ
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Del Rey CA
Motorcycle: 1997 Honda GL1500se
1968 Honda CL350 Scramble,
1970Honda 750k,1976 Suzuki GT550,
1979 Kawasaki 1000st, 1983 Suzuki GS1150se
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R
1981 Honda CBX (not for sale)
1982 Honda GL1100 Aspencade 1994 Yamaha700

Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby TAZZ » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:47 pm

WingAdmin thank for your help I have question for you why it has NOT done it again and also why not with a FULL tank off gas and it is ok to use Berryman B12 fuel treatment it say the same as Sea From

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bstig60
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby bstig60 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:01 pm

Is your bike a CA model? If so, the vent isn't in the tank cap. There should be a carbon canister which collects the fumes and reinjects them into the carb to be burned. This also has a hose with a one way valve that acts as a vent. Possible the valve is sticking.
Bill

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ct1500
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby ct1500 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:34 pm

Classic symptom of a failing fuel pump with a low fuel level the pump cannot effectively pump the fuel up the required distance off the bottom of tank at the specified pressure. If it was the cap causing a vacuum in tank by not allowing air in it would not have lasted just the 5-10 (minutes/miles) until acting up again. Vacuum is formed in tank as fuel level decreases with no air allowed in. Put a vacuum pump tester on auto fuel valve to ensure no vacuum leakage there and then replace pump.

(A fuel pump by its nature will build a pressure to either a carb or fuel injectors and is a far more important spec than how much volume it will flow. If we did not care about pressure it would be a transfer pump where pressure is not the goal.

Vehicle makers always give a fuel pump pressure spec except Honda on some of their earlier models, nowhere is there a spec for pump pressure on the 1500 yet it is about 2 PSI for instance. Whether it is a carb or injectors running at 38 PSI fuel metering devices need to be supplied fuel at a pressure for proper operation where a pump is utilized.

Just because there is no published spec does not mean it operates at 0 PSI. Hook a gauge up to any vehicle and check it for yourself. When a fuel pump goes bad it is the pressure building component that will be evident first and not its transfer pump free flow rating ability. Put a restriction on the pump outlet (float valves) and if the pump can't keep the 2 PSI the engine will fall flat on its face when demand is needed.

It is possible to have flow or volume at little to none PSI but very unlikely not to have flow at a pressure. A pinched or crushed fuel line, plugged filter or obstructed tank pick up would be the exception.

If the fuel lines are clear and you have pressure out of the pump you will get the volume 99% of the time.)
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby bstig60 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:09 pm

Don't disagree, but that's easy to check. Put a pressure gauge on the output side of the pump and check the pressure. Most low pressure pumps run 2-3 lbs.
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ct1500
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby ct1500 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:18 pm

During fail mode of pump it is intermittent and difficult to catch.

That is why I say the two most important additional gauges on the 1500 would be a volt meter and fuel pressure meter.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

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WingAdmin
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:12 am

ct1500 wrote:Classic symptom of a failing fuel pump with a low fuel level the pump cannot effectively pump the fuel up the required distance off the bottom of tank at the specified pressure. If it was the cap causing a vacuum in tank by not allowing air in it would not have lasted just the 5-10 (minutes/miles) until acting up again. Vacuum is formed in tank as fuel level decreases with no air allowed in. Put a vacuum pump tester on auto fuel valve to ensure no vacuum leakage there and then replace pump.


This is quite true, but if the cap vent is severely restricted, the pump might not be able to overcome it when pumping with an empty tank, but with the added pressure of a full tank of fuel on top of it, it could overcome the resistance.

That said, checking the health of the fuel pump is relatively easy to do.

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TAZZ
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Del Rey CA
Motorcycle: 1997 Honda GL1500se
1968 Honda CL350 Scramble,
1970Honda 750k,1976 Suzuki GT550,
1979 Kawasaki 1000st, 1983 Suzuki GS1150se
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R
1981 Honda CBX (not for sale)
1982 Honda GL1100 Aspencade 1994 Yamaha700

Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby TAZZ » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:56 pm

Do you guys get a air sound for your tank went you open your gas tank cap? If its my fuel pump why has it not done it again when gas is so low the RED light is coming on? other question in the pictures of www.berrysweb.com/1500fuel pump.htm I see the OLD fuel pump as TWO fuel hoses and the NEW only has ONE?

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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby bstig60 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:57 pm

The air sound when you open the tank cap is air being sucked into the tank to equalize pressure because of a plugged tank vent. I ask again..... Is the bike a California model?
Bill

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gordonv
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby gordonv » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:46 pm

I'm more familiar with this issue on Valkyries, almost always a pinched tank vent hose. You said you just did your fuel filter recently, so maybe the line was accidentally pinched (vent or fuel)?

There are how many parts to the fuel system on a GW GL1500? The fuel valve controlled by a vacuum, could be a leak so no fuel going by. Electric pump, like mentioned, starting to go. I don't know why it would work sometimes to empty, but not others.

My favorite is when you open the fuel cap, air rushes in, and it works. So I would say %100 it is a tank venting issues. But like bstig60 asked, and pointed out, is the CA model canister, could be a problem as much as a vent tub.

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TAZZ
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Del Rey CA
Motorcycle: 1997 Honda GL1500se
1968 Honda CL350 Scramble,
1970Honda 750k,1976 Suzuki GT550,
1979 Kawasaki 1000st, 1983 Suzuki GS1150se
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R
1981 Honda CBX (not for sale)
1982 Honda GL1100 Aspencade 1994 Yamaha700

Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby TAZZ » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:59 pm

No I don't think my bike is a california

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bstig60
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby bstig60 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:21 pm

You can check your emissions sticker to be sure. Your serial number should also tell you. But I think there will be a red hose coming off the top of the fuel tank or the cap if it is. My bike is a 49 state, so this isn't there.
Bill

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TAZZ
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Del Rey CA
Motorcycle: 1997 Honda GL1500se
1968 Honda CL350 Scramble,
1970Honda 750k,1976 Suzuki GT550,
1979 Kawasaki 1000st, 1983 Suzuki GS1150se
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R
1981 Honda CBX (not for sale)
1982 Honda GL1100 Aspencade 1994 Yamaha700

Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby TAZZ » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:36 pm

My has a RED hose on the gas cap

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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby bstig60 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:23 am

Then you should have a California model. Check the Emissions Label to confirm. If so, you have a closed vent system that includes several hoses, a carbon canister and a purge control valve. If the PCV is not doing its thing, that could cause your problem. Your service manual should give you a diagram of the hose routing, Purge control valve and canister locations. A CA model uses special carbs that have an extra port on them to take in the gas fumes from the canister via the purge control valve.
Bill

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TAZZ
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Del Rey CA
Motorcycle: 1997 Honda GL1500se
1968 Honda CL350 Scramble,
1970Honda 750k,1976 Suzuki GT550,
1979 Kawasaki 1000st, 1983 Suzuki GS1150se
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R
1981 Honda CBX (not for sale)
1982 Honda GL1100 Aspencade 1994 Yamaha700

Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby TAZZ » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:07 am

Yes pep-boys has the Carter P72190 for 55.99 and fuel screen STS-2 for 9.99 I think I'm going to get it I also have the GAS cap on Berryman Fuel treatment B-12 to dissolve any deposits then let it try and try it I will keep you posted. Please keep tips coming thank.

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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby ct1500 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:05 am

The whoosh sound when opening cap is fuel vapors under pressure releasing out, not air going in.

If there was a vacuum in tank you would physically have to lift the cap off the tank neck with a slight upward pull to break the vacuum seal, like I wrote pressurized vapors coming out not air rushing in.

Fuel pumps on the 1500 do not normally go quick, they are a drawn out affair. Extended riding, highway speeds, (inclines), higher temps and lower fuel levels are times most likely to act up.

If you do not want to replace pump without knowing for 100% certainty the only alternative is to tee in a fuel pressure gauge and ride until it acts up again watching gauge pressure. :D
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

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TAZZ
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Del Rey CA
Motorcycle: 1997 Honda GL1500se
1968 Honda CL350 Scramble,
1970Honda 750k,1976 Suzuki GT550,
1979 Kawasaki 1000st, 1983 Suzuki GS1150se
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R
1981 Honda CBX (not for sale)
1982 Honda GL1100 Aspencade 1994 Yamaha700

Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby TAZZ » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:18 pm

OK here is an UPDATE I CLEAN the fuel cap. then you turn cap upside down you see 4 little hole and 1 BIG one in the middle, In the center hole I see something RED I pick it out and it was a piece of RED PLASTIC I remove it. I went an fill up the GAS tank went for an 100mile ride all good and ran good got home an I open the GAS cap an I got NO AIR sound is this Ok?

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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:32 pm

bstig60 wrote:Then you should have a California model. Check the Emissions Label to confirm. If so, you have a closed vent system that includes several hoses, a carbon canister and a purge control valve. If the PCV is not doing its thing, that could cause your problem. Your service manual should give you a diagram of the hose routing, Purge control valve and canister locations. A CA model uses special carbs that have an extra port on them to take in the gas fumes from the canister via the purge control valve.


That hose doesn't necessarily indicate a California model. Later models of GL1500's (mine included) had a hose coming off the gas cap, regardless of their destination. California bikes had that hose going to the carbon canister, on non-California bikes the other end of the hose just hangs out the bottom of the bike.

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ct1500
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby ct1500 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:30 pm

sugarbella wrote:OK here is an UPDATE I CLEAN the fuel cap. then you turn cap upside down you see 4 little hole and 1 BIG one in the middle, In the center hole I see something RED I pick it out and it was a piece of RED PLASTIC I remove it. I went an fill up the GAS tank went for an 100mile ride all good and ran good got home an I open the GAS cap an I got NO AIR sound is this Ok?


I would say that you broke it. Caps are designed to let air in and keep routine fuel vapors under pressure from escaping into the atmosphere which is mandated by the EPA on motor vehicles for many years now. Under certain over pressure situations the caps will vent out.

88-90 models I know for sure had no hose at cap, it was either 91-92 that came with the hose for CA and non CA models.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

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TAZZ
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Del Rey CA
Motorcycle: 1997 Honda GL1500se
1968 Honda CL350 Scramble,
1970Honda 750k,1976 Suzuki GT550,
1979 Kawasaki 1000st, 1983 Suzuki GS1150se
1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R
1981 Honda CBX (not for sale)
1982 Honda GL1100 Aspencade 1994 Yamaha700

Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby TAZZ » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:33 pm

I rode bike to motorcycle salvage and got a gas cap cost 10.00 :D but in bike rode home about 20 mile remove cap and I'm getting air vapor back again going to clean the gas cap and hope the was the problem.

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ct1500
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby ct1500 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:53 pm

ct1500 wrote:The whoosh sound when opening cap is fuel vapors under pressure releasing out, not air going in.


And is normal, holding vapors under a slight pressure within the tank.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

OU812
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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby OU812 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:30 pm

My 1st thought was vapor lock.
But what do I know? :|
The older I get, the faster I was.

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Re: PROBLEM with ????

Postby twostrokes48 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:10 pm

Is their a follow up on this issue yet????




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