She just died on a ride today


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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jdavidsmit
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Motorcycle: 1990 GL1500 Goldwing
first "bike" 1963 mini bike with 3.5HP B&S motor.
2nd 1966 Honda 50
3rd 1967 Honda 90
4th 1970 125
5th 1987 GL1100

She just died on a ride today

Postby jdavidsmit » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:34 pm



:( my 1990GL just stopped running today, like I had turned the key off. I have just completed a lot of maintenance on her. did a couple of short test rides all good. Today I needed to do a couple of errand so I took the bike. made a couple of stops no problems, filled up with gas and started home. a couple of miles from the gas station I turned on the cruse control it would not engage so I turned it off and on a couple of times same results, then she just died. turns over great but no start. called the wife and we loaded her up and now she is back in the garage ready to start investigate in the morning. any ideas where to start?


David

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WingAdmin
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Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:48 pm

jdavidsmit wrote::( my 1990GL just stopped running today, like I had turned the key off. I have just completed a lot of maintenance on her. did a couple of short test rides all good. Today I needed to do a couple of errand so I took the bike. made a couple of stops no problems, filled up with gas and started home. a couple of miles from the gas station I turned on the cruse control it would not engage so I turned it off and on a couple of times same results, then she just died. turns over great but no start. called the wife and we loaded her up and now she is back in the garage ready to start investigate in the morning. any ideas where to start?


Do you know if the bank angle sensor was ever changed on your bike?

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jdavidsmit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:40 am
Location: Viola, TN
Motorcycle: 1990 GL1500 Goldwing
first "bike" 1963 mini bike with 3.5HP B&S motor.
2nd 1966 Honda 50
3rd 1967 Honda 90
4th 1970 125
5th 1987 GL1100

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby jdavidsmit » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:55 pm

I could not find any documents for it that i got from the PO so my guess would be no.
David

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MikeB
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Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby MikeB » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:58 pm

If the recall on the Bank Angle Sensor was accomplished, there will be an X on the frame.
But that does not mean that the sensor is still good.
Also, two other possibilities, the battery is dying or the Kill switch is not making good contact. The motor will still crank if the kill switch is off, except for 1999 and and later models. So, an open kill switch will give the symptom of sudden dead engine syndrome and then not allow it to start.
BUT, a bad battery, probably caused by an alternator that is not charging, can keep the cruise from engaging due to low voltage.
A battery that has been starved of current from the alternator can still crank the engine but there will not be enough current to crank the engine and deliver spark to the plugs. This machine is very voltage and current hungry.

Go here and read the article in Wing World http://archives.wingworldmag.com/march2002/magazine/article/sensors.html
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:26 am

When the battery dies while riding, the bike will gradually lose power until the engine just quits. If the problem is electrical (i.e. kill switch, ignition switch, bank angle sensor) the bike will suddenly shut off as if you just turned it off. Can you recall in which way your bike quit?

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jdavidsmit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:40 am
Location: Viola, TN
Motorcycle: 1990 GL1500 Goldwing
first "bike" 1963 mini bike with 3.5HP B&S motor.
2nd 1966 Honda 50
3rd 1967 Honda 90
4th 1970 125
5th 1987 GL1100

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby jdavidsmit » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:54 am

not really, i was messing with the cruse switch. i turned on the cruse, waited a couple of seconds, released the throttle, and cruse did not in engage. when i reapplied the throttle there was no power. once i was stopped i made sure everything was off, radio, cruse, and CB, turned key off then back on. the motor turned over fine but never any fire. i rechecked the kill switch but it was on.
Not really knowing what to check next plus i did not have a meter with me i waited a few min and tried again same as before.
When we got her home i put the battery charger on and it has been on all night. i will start checking. in a bit.

If the bike is not running how do you test the bank angle switch?
David

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jdavidsmit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:40 am
Location: Viola, TN
Motorcycle: 1990 GL1500 Goldwing
first "bike" 1963 mini bike with 3.5HP B&S motor.
2nd 1966 Honda 50
3rd 1967 Honda 90
4th 1970 125
5th 1987 GL1100

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby jdavidsmit » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:06 am

i checked and the X is on the frame, so the recall replacement was done. still turns over but no fire or start.
David

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MikeB
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Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby MikeB » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:33 am

Check the KILL switch. Flick it on and off in both directions to start with. This is new territory for me, I have not had a kill switch problem before but I have read that it has happened to others. With my 1998 and the 1999 I had, the engine does not turn over with the kill switch off unlike the previous year wings.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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jdavidsmit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:40 am
Location: Viola, TN
Motorcycle: 1990 GL1500 Goldwing
first "bike" 1963 mini bike with 3.5HP B&S motor.
2nd 1966 Honda 50
3rd 1967 Honda 90
4th 1970 125
5th 1987 GL1100

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby jdavidsmit » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:13 pm

up date. because i had replaced the timing belts during the maintenance, first thing i did was to pull the covers and recheck the timing. it's right on the mark. i also checked for spark with one of the plugs, i have spark. next i pulled the kill switch apart and its good. but what did get my attention was there was only 11.2 volts on the hot side and with the switch and key on i have 11.1 on the out side of the switch. i could not find any blown fuses. the second thing was i could not hear the fuel pump of course with my bad hearing that may not mean anything.

i;m recharging the battery and i will take it down to NAPA for a load test. i thought a 1500 would run just off the alternator?? is this true??
David

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MikeB
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Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby MikeB » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:51 pm

Yes it will run off just the alternator. And it will run on the battery if the alternator is bad. But, if the alternator goes bad it will run until the battery voltage becomes too low to sustain operation.
Make sure you check the alternator once you get the battery fully charged and it starts.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:15 pm

Was it 11.2 volts with the engine running? If so, then that's likely your problem - GL1500's like a LOT of volts, and a sagging battery will cause it to quit. Let's see what the load test reveals about your battery's state.

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jdavidsmit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:40 am
Location: Viola, TN
Motorcycle: 1990 GL1500 Goldwing
first "bike" 1963 mini bike with 3.5HP B&S motor.
2nd 1966 Honda 50
3rd 1967 Honda 90
4th 1970 125
5th 1987 GL1100

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby jdavidsmit » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:12 pm

no i still have not got it to start.
David

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virgilmobile
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Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:30 pm

jdavidsmit wrote:up date. i also checked for spark with one of the plugs, i have spark.

the second thing was i could not hear the fuel pump of course with my bad hearing that may not mean anything.


*** Spark....that's good....Kill switch and BAS sensor are OK for the moment.
Your gonna have to verify the fuel delivery parts...Are the carbs getting gas?

***Fuel pump cycles as the key is turned on for a second or three,then only during cranking and running.

Possibles..bad fuel shutoff auto valve or loss of vacuum to it.
Plugged fuel filter.
Dead fuel pump and/or now no volts feeding it....The fuel pumps are not fused protected and are supplied with 12 volts directly from the ECM module...Should the pump draw excessive power (>5amp) if it's bad,it will damage the ECM.
Probably time to pull the seat and get your test light poked at the fuel pump power wire....There should be 12 volts there as you crank the engine...It's the black with a blue tracer.

97serider
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Motorcycle: 1997 GL1500SE

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby 97serider » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:27 pm

You can run a jumper on the ECM connector that will supply voltage to your fuel pump when you turn key on. Pull the fuel line off of the fuel filter and put it into a container then see if fuel pumps with key on. If your fuel filter is ok and the shut off valve are ok then your ECM May be suspect. I just went through this with my 1997. Give the battery a good check too.

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jdavidsmit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:40 am
Location: Viola, TN
Motorcycle: 1990 GL1500 Goldwing
first "bike" 1963 mini bike with 3.5HP B&S motor.
2nd 1966 Honda 50
3rd 1967 Honda 90
4th 1970 125
5th 1987 GL1100

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby jdavidsmit » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:59 pm

This afternoon I, disconnected the fuel line after the fuel filter disconnected the black wire and jumped it to 12v and i got fuel running out the filter. so pump is good.
i did not know about the >5amps i will check it tomorrow. i will also check the 12v from the ECU.

thanks for all the help again. cannot get this type of out of the book.
David

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MikeB
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Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby MikeB » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:43 pm

This is all really good information for everyone but we may be going a little overboard with the troubleshooting needed.
jdavidsmit wrote:
but what did get my attention was there was only 11.2 volts on the hot side and with the switch and key on i have 11.1 on the out side of the switch.

By the looks of above statement, I think he just needs to put in a fully charged battery first and then start further investigation. It may be nothing more than a bad alternator which caused the battery to draw down.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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virgilmobile
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Previously owned
78 GL1000
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82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:36 pm

Possible.Im going by the statement of having spark.It should have started.
You could apply the 12 volts direct to the pump and see if it will start.

dkorody
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Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby dkorody » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:15 am

you may have water in the gas

97serider
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Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby 97serider » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:49 pm

When I found the fuel pump to be good I peeled back the boot from the back of the ECM connector on the male side. I then made a small u shaped jumper wire to go in the back of blk/blu to blk/wht, then plugged the connector back into ECM.This will supply 12 volts to the pump when key is on, so go ahead and try to start, if it fires up and runs your ECM IS bad. I found a used one on eBay from a salvage yard that would take it back, most won't. A new one is 600.00.Good luck.

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jdavidsmit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:40 am
Location: Viola, TN
Motorcycle: 1990 GL1500 Goldwing
first "bike" 1963 mini bike with 3.5HP B&S motor.
2nd 1966 Honda 50
3rd 1967 Honda 90
4th 1970 125
5th 1987 GL1100

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby jdavidsmit » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:03 am

The battery tested out as right on the edge, so i got a new one. put it on the charger should be ready to install this morning.

does anyone know of a way to test the BAS without the bike running? i'm not seeing any reliable voltage red to green? nothing in my manual, except how to replace it.
David

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MikeB
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2003 - GL1800A

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby MikeB » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:33 pm

The following is from the ETM (Electrical Troubleshooting Manual).
I understand that the BAS can be bypassed but I have not found any instructions on how to do it.
I have not had this problem as of yet so this is the best I can do for you.

The starter/reverse switch receives battery voltage
from the IGN/cruise relay when the ignition is
switched ON. The bank angle sensor supplies
ground to the IGN/cruise relay.

TEST A1: Power and Ground Reverse Lever Switch Isolation
1. Disconnect C92 (reverse lever switch) and with ignition switch ON, check for battery voltage at
BRN/WHT circuit.
If yes, replace reverse lever switch.
If no, service BRN/WHT circuit for an open or short to ground.

TEST A2: Power and Ground Isolation
1. Disconnect C57 (starter/reverse switch) and with ignition switch ON, check for battery voltage at
BLK/LT GRN circuit.
If yes, go to test A3.
If no, go to test A4.

TEST A3: Power and Ground Starter Relay A Isolation
1. Reconnect C57 and disconnect C41 (starter relay A). With ignition switch ON, check for voltage at
YEL/RED circuit with starter/reverse switch depressed.
If yes, go to step 2.
If no, service YEL/RED circuit for an open. If OK, replace starter/reverse switch.
2. Check for battery voltage at starter relay A BLK circuit from battery.
If yes, go to step 3.
If no, repair BLK circuit.
3. With ignition switch ON, gearshift in NEUTRAL, and reverse lever switch in the FORWARD
position, check for voltage between BLK (battery feed) circuit and C41 BRN/RED using a test light.
If yes, go to step 4.
If no, sevice BRN/RED circuit for an open between starter relay A and S302.
4. Check for battery voltage across BLK circuits at starter relay A.
If yes, go to step 5.
If no, service BLK circuit between starter relay A and 8227 for an open.
5. Reconnect C41 and disconnect BLK circuits at starter/reverse motor terminal. Connect test light
at starter/reverse motor terminal. With ignition switch ON, reverse lever switch FORWARD and
gearshift in NEUTRAL, press and hold starter/reverse switch. Test lamp should light.
If yes, replace starter/reverse motor.
If no, replace starter relay A.

TEST A4: Power and Ground IGN/Cruise Relay Isolation
1. Disconnect the IGN/cruise relay. With the ignition switch ON, check for battery voltage at both
WHT circuits.
If yes, go to step 2.
If no, service WHT circuit for an open.
2. Check for battery voltage between WHT and RED/WHT circuits.
If yes, go to step 3.
If no, go to test A5.
3. Connect a fused jumper (15A) between WHT and BLK/LT GRN circuit at IGN/cruise relay and
check fa battery voltage at BLK/LT GRN circuit at C57.
If yes, replace IGN/cruise relay.
If no, service BLK/LT GRN circuit.

TEST A5: Power and Ground Bank Angle Sensor Isolation.
1. Reconnect the IGN/cruise relay. Disconnect C11 (bank angle sensor). Turn the ignition switch ON
and check for battery voltage at RED/WHT circuit.
If yes, go to step 2.
If no, service RED/WHT circuit for an open.
2. Check for battery voltage at WHT circuit.
If yes, go to step 3.
If no, service WHT circuit for an open.
3. Check for battery voltage between WHT and GRN circuits.
If yes, replace bank angle sensor.
If no, service GRN circuit for an open.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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jdavidsmit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:40 am
Location: Viola, TN
Motorcycle: 1990 GL1500 Goldwing
first "bike" 1963 mini bike with 3.5HP B&S motor.
2nd 1966 Honda 50
3rd 1967 Honda 90
4th 1970 125
5th 1987 GL1100

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby jdavidsmit » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:40 pm

The new battery did not make a difference, can't spend any more on her this month. try again latter.
David

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WingAdmin
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1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:00 pm

To bypass the bank angle sensor, jumper the red/white wire and the green wire (i.e. connect the red/white wire to ground).

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MikeB
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2003 - GL1800A

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby MikeB » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:06 pm

That would have been my course of action if I had been working on this machine. However I did not want to suggest it since I have not tried it and it is not mine to fry/buy.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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WingAdmin
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Posts: 17047
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: She just died on a ride today

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:32 pm

MikeB wrote:That would have been my course of action if I had been working on this machine. However I did not want to suggest it since I have not tried it and it is not mine to fry/buy.


There are three wires going into the bank angle sensor (BAS). One is the red/white wire, one is green, and one is white.

White supplies +12V via fuse 11. Green is ground. Red/white switches the ground for the coil of relay 6 (which is also supplied with +12V from fuse 11). In normal operation, the BAS grounds the red/white wire, which actuates relay 6 and allows the ignition to function. When the BAS has been actuated (i.e. bike tips over), the red/white wire no longer has ground, relay 6 de-latches, and the ignition is shut off.

If you connect the wrong wires on the bank angle sensor connector, the worst you can do is blow fuse 11. There's nothing there to "fry."

Just an FYI. :)




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