Rear Wheel Compatibility


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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tumunga
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Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby tumunga » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:49 pm



I have a quick question. I bought a rear rim with tire (dunlop E3, about half wore) for my 1989 Goldwing. I got it so I could have the original and set it up with a car tire. The "new" rim is from a 99 goldwing ($77 to the door ).

There were two obvious differences between the two rims. First, the hollowed out area on the spokes are opposite from each other. On the '99, the hollow side is on the rotor side, and on the '89, the hollow side is on the drive side. The other is the hub/spline has a 6 bolt pattern on the '88, and a 5 bolt pattern on the '99.

I just wanted to check to insure these two are compatible with one another. I've already installed the new rim. It seemed to fit ok, axle spacers and all. When I test drove the bike, I heard something that sounded like a bird chirping from the rear of the bike. It only happened when I accelerated. When I let off the throttle, it stopped. It was pretty loud. While returning to the house, it quit, so I went back out again. Haven't heard the noise since. I drove the bike to work today (15 miles) and still no chirping. The bike runs/rode like a normal 25 year-old bike.

My son put the nut on the axle, and put the bike back together for me while I was at work. The only things I could think of that would cause that would cause that were incompatibility, or he tightened the axle nut a hair too tight. I'm thinking whatever was rubbing to cause that chirping wore down pretty quick. Any ideas? (so much for a quick question! LOL)


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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:37 pm

The five pin and six pin spiders/wheels are obviously not compatible with one another, however as long as you have the spider that goes with the wheel, it is OK.

Chirping is generally rubber (i.e. tire) rubbing on something. Check the tire sidewall for scuffing, and if you see it, check the tire clearance against the sidearm.

If you see no scuffing, I would wonder about the bearings in the new wheel you got - did you check the condition of the wheel bearings before you installed it?

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tumunga
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby tumunga » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:38 pm

WingAdmin wrote:The five pin and six pin spiders/wheels are obviously not compatible with one another, however as long as you have the spider that goes with the wheel, it is OK.

Chirping is generally rubber (i.e. tire) rubbing on something. Check the tire sidewall for scuffing, and if you see it, check the tire clearance against the sidearm.

If you see no scuffing, I would wonder about the bearings in the new wheel you got - did you check the condition of the wheel bearings before you installed it?


That chirping was definitely metal on metal, or metal on plastic. Rubber wouldn't make the chirping I heard. As for the bearings, I think your suggestion is what I'm going with. It feels like the bearings to me. I'm going to ride it out, and dress up the original rim with new bearings, and a new tire. I'm only using the bike for transportation back and forth to work right now.

Thanks again for the insight.
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby MikeB » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:16 am

tumunga wrote:

My son put the nut on the axle, and put the bike back together for me while I was at work. The only things I could think of that would cause that would cause that were incompatibility, or he tightened the axle nut a hair too tight. I'm thinking whatever was rubbing to cause that chirping wore down pretty quick. Any ideas? (so much for a quick question! LOL)

Read more: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22702#ixzz36NlbMB5t

Nothing against your son but if you did not install the wheel, axle and tighten everything else up yourself, and the person that did it is not a Honda mechanic, you don't know what its status is.

I attempted to install a later model wheel on an '89 last year. The late model wheel is not compatible with the 88/89 final drive and swingarm. It is possible to make it appear as if it will work when you use the late model 5 pin drive flange and wheel with the early model wing. But, it is only because the axle nut is not tightened properly. If you install all the spacers and tighten the axle nut properly, the wheel will not even turn by hand. The axle and all the spacers and axle pinch bolts are there for a reason and need to be installed and torqued as it is specified and in the order that it called for in the service manual. The early and late model rear wheels are made differently for a reason. It is easy to identify the differences. I have to believe that the differences are there so you do not try to use a 1990 - 2000 wheel on a 1988 or a 1989 wing.

My suggestion is you acquire a wheel that is made for a 1988/1989 wing and discontinue riding it with that 1999 wheel installed. I speak from experience.
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby tumunga » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:07 pm

MikeB wrote:
tumunga wrote:

My son put the nut on the axle, and put the bike back together for me while I was at work. The only things I could think of that would cause that would cause that were incompatibility, or he tightened the axle nut a hair too tight. I'm thinking whatever was rubbing to cause that chirping wore down pretty quick. Any ideas? (so much for a quick question! LOL)

Read more: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22702#ixzz36NlbMB5t

Nothing against your son but if you did not install the wheel, axle and tighten everything else up yourself, and the person that did it is not a Honda mechanic, you don't know what its status is.

I installed everything on the back wheel (spacer, brake, washer, axle, pinch bolt) except the nut. I checked the torque on the axle nut my son installed, and it was dead on at 80 ft lbs. That's pretty good for a Suzuki mechanic. ;)

I attempted to install a later model wheel on an '89 last year. The late model wheel is not compatible with the 88/89 final drive and swingarm. It is possible to make it appear as if it will work when you use the late model 5 pin drive flange and wheel with the early model wing. But, it is only because the axle nut is not tightened properly. If you install all the spacers and tighten the axle nut properly, the wheel will not even turn by hand.

I'm confused on this one. Albeit with the worn bearing, I've put about 800 miles on the bike. The wheel turns fine, the breaks work fine, and aside from the very slight hum of the bearing, I'm getting no adverse reaction at all from the 5-pin hub and the early model final drive.

The axle and all the spacers and axle pinch bolts are there for a reason and need to be installed and torqued as it is specified and in the order that it called for in the service manual.

They are. I referenced the manual when reinstalling the wheel. Everything fit beautifully .

The early and late model rear wheels are made differently for a reason. It is easy to identify the differences. I have to believe that the differences are there so you do not try to use a 1990 - 2000 wheel on a 1988 or a 1989 wing.

Since my 99 rim fit fine onto the axle and into the final drive, even though the spokes look different, and the flange is a 5-pin, can you tell me what exactly are the differences in the rims that caused your installation of the late model wheel to the 89 Goldwing to fail? I might have overlooked something

My suggestion is you acquire a wheel that is made for a 1988/1989 wing and discontinue riding it with that 1999 wheel installed. I speak from experience.


I appreciate your experience, sir. My recent experience is the rim fit, and works fine. I feel it's going to last me the 2-3 more weeks I need to get all my parts in order to put the car tire on the rear of the bike.

I did find the origin of the chirping noise. Due to the worn bearing, the wheel had a slight wobble under throttle (very, VERY slight.) The aluminum rim was rubbing the black hard plastic ring on the final drive. After it wore a little (about 1/2 mile of test riding around the neighborhood) the chirping stopped.

Again, thanks for all the insight. I love this place!
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby gordonv » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:58 pm

I also own a 88' (88'-89' model years are different than the 90-00).

I also bought a spare rim with a 90% MC tire on it (92'), so I could later replace my 88' rim with a CT.

What I found was;
rims/flange is fine as long as matched (5 or 6 spoke)
rotors are different, needed the 88' put on the 92' rim so it would fit in the caliper
the drive dust cover needed to be replaced (88' and 92' are different, $20)

I also bought a brake bracket for a 90'-00' so I could keep the 88' rotor on it's rim, and the 92' rotor on it's rim, since they are different diameters, and swap out the brackets with the rims.

It's now been over 5k miles of ridding, and no problems, no noise, all is well.

I also swapped the front rim. Same reason. Wanted a mounted tire on rim, for the next tire replacement. Might even try double darkside.

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tumunga
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby tumunga » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:14 pm

gordonv wrote:I also own a 88' (88'-89' model years are different than the 90-00).

I also bought a spare rim with a 90% MC tire on it (92'), so I could later replace my 88' rim with a CT.

What I found was;
rims/flange is fine as long as matched (5 or 6 spoke)
rotors are different, needed the 88' put on the 92' rim so it would fit in the caliper
the drive dust cover needed to be replaced (88' and 92' are different, $20)

I also bought a brake bracket for a 90'-00' so I could keep the 88' rotor on it's rim, and the 92' rotor on it's rim, since they are different diameters, and swap out the brackets with the rims.

It's now been over 5k miles of ridding, and no problems, no noise, all is well.

I also swapped the front rim. Same reason. Wanted a mounted tire on rim, for the next tire replacement. Might even try double darkside.


AHHHH...the drive dust cover. That's where my chirping came from. Apparently, I wore mine down to the "new" specs! The new rim did not come with a rotor, so I swapped the old rotor to the newer rim.
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby gordonv » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:04 am

If you only have one rotor, what are you going to do about the bolts, you said you now have 2 rims? They are supposed to be used once, even though most just use lock tite.

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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby MikeB » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:21 am

I do not see a reference in the service manual concerning the re-use of the brake disc bolts. Can you point me to that part of the manual? I must have missed it somehow.
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:50 am

MikeB wrote:I do not see a reference in the service manual concerning the re-use of the brake disc bolts. Can you point me to that part of the manual? I must have missed it somehow.


It is not mentioned anywhere in the manual. Typically bolts are specified as single use when they are torque-to-yield bolts, where you normally tighten them beyond their elastic limit, thus weakening them to the point they may fail if reused. Torque-to-yield bolts are typically used in places where precise clamping loads are required.

New rotor bolts from Honda (and you should use only Honda bolts for this application, as they have a special shoulder that goes into the disc) come with thread lock pre-applied, which might be why Honda might specify single use for them. That said, I have simply reapplied (high temperature - remember, brake rotors get hot) thread lock before reinstalling them.

I suppose we could find out for sure - measure the length of a used one compared to a new one. If the used one is longer, then it is a torque to yield, and definitely should be used only once.

That said, I will only use these bolts twice - I replace them after they have been used twice, because I have heard multiple accounts of them breaking in the hub after 4-5 reuses. I'd really rather not have to attempt to remove a broken bolt out of an aluminum wheel. The bolts are stainless steel, so are not the strongest things in the world.

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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby MikeB » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:37 pm

Thanks Scott. As always, an excellent explanation.
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby MikeB » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:11 pm

WingAdmin said:

The bolts are stainless steel, so are not the strongest things in the world.


I don't think they are stainless steel. They are magnetic and they will rust when left to the elements.
They are not Grade marked so I don't know what grade they are but I would imagine that they are a Grade 8.8 (SAE/STD Grade 5) or better.
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:25 pm

MikeB wrote:
WingAdmin said:

The bolts are stainless steel, so are not the strongest things in the world.


I don't think they are stainless steel. They are magnetic and they will rust when left to the elements.
They are not Grade marked so I don't know what grade they are but I would imagine that they are a Grade 8.8 (SAE/STD Grade 5) or better.


I've never put a magnet against mine, but I read elsewhere (multiple times) that they were stainless. Could just be a high grade steel I suppose.

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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby MikeB » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:42 pm

I couldn't find any reference for the need to replace the disc bolts for the GL1500 but I did find that the bolts for the GL1800 front brake disc are supposed to be replaced rather than re-used. But as you can see, there are a lot of fasteners that Honda recommends replacement rather than reuse.
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Re: Rear Wheel Compatibility

Postby gordonv » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:30 pm

Since you are still looking, I also tried to find it.

Most of the data I heard of the replacing of the rotor bolts was on the Valkyrie web site, which also is a GL1500.

I could not find anything in my GW GL1500 manual, with regards to replacing the bolt, only using loc-tite on it.

I then looked over my Valkyrie Service Manual, and found the reference to replace the ALOC bolt. I know people have reused the bolts with the addition of loc-tite. The talk also is after 5-6 tightenings, and then the bolt fails. So most only use them about 2-3 times, then buy new ones.

Since it doesn't specify, then I would suggest the choice is yours. But I for one would feel that the bolts first put on the 88' GL1500, is not the same one that is being sold today.




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