altinator upgrade


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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lamasue
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altinator upgrade

Postby lamasue » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:42 pm



im going to my 40amp to high out put 90amp what type of battery do i upgrade to and make also the dogbone fuse do i up the amperage there too



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jenagle
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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby jenagle » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:37 pm

I guess we need more information about why you are upgrading to the larger alternator. Do you have a bigger load that you want to supply? Is your old alternator not working?

As to the double dogbone fuse, I know that many have done that, but it seems like you're making the wiring harness into a fuse if it won't handle the 100+ amps that the double dogbone fuse will pass without opening. I wouldn't put more fuse capacity in the holder than the max load that you want to carry. In other words, even if the alternator will give you 90 amps, you should still use the single dogbone fuse until you need more current.

I'm sure that there are other opinions, and reasons for doubling the dogbone, but I can't think of one off the top of my head. Anyone?

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ct1500
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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby ct1500 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:45 pm

The big alternators are capable of producing 60A at idle up to their rated outputs when spun faster. In two situations the full 60A at idle will be passing through the 40A fuse and that is when using reverse or if one had jumper cables attached to the battery jump starting another vehicle. Starter motor current alone during reverse operation is 80A.

The 40A fuse is not a fast blow type and will/does handle short over amperage situations but the question is for how long? A safer more reasonable alternative might be a 70 or 80A maxi-fuse for those short term usages. The wire from alternator to fuse is 10ga? (maybe 8) and robust.
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lamasue
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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby lamasue » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:05 pm

i want to put on more accessories yes i think a 75 amp fuse would be good now batteries gel, glass mat which one and brand

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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby jenagle » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:17 pm

Thanks ct1500. I learned something today. Always seem to on this forum.

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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby jenagle » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:22 pm

As for the AGM battery, check out viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13333

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ct1500
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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby ct1500 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:36 am

EDIT
Above amended to 55A fuse not 40.
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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:48 pm

With the Compufire alternator (which I have on my bike), they recommend the use of an AGM battery, and the kit actually includes the double fuses, and a spacer. This is the Compufire fuse on my GL1500 - notice there are two fuses in parallel, and (very important) they are separated by a spacer at each end, so that they are not touching each other:

Compufire fuse
Compufire fuse

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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:51 pm

ct1500 wrote:The big alternators are capable of producing 60A at idle up to their rated outputs when spun faster. In two situations the full 60A at idle will be passing through the 40A fuse and that is when using reverse or if one had jumper cables attached to the battery jump starting another vehicle. Starter motor current alone during reverse operation is 80A.

The 40A fuse is not a fast blow type and will/does handle short over amperage situations but the question is for how long? A safer more reasonable alternative might be a 70 or 80A maxi-fuse for those short term usages. The wire from alternator to fuse is 10ga? (maybe 8) and robust.


This is actually incorrect. The starter/reverse motor, when engaged, is actually connected to the battery with NO FUSE whatsoever. It can potentially draw hundreds of amps instantaneously, which would blow any fuse connected to it. This is the same on all Goldwings. The starter current does not pass through the master fuse.

Starter circuit
Starter circuit

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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby ct1500 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:22 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
ct1500 wrote:The big alternators are capable of producing 60A at idle up to their rated outputs when spun faster. In two situations the full 60A at idle will be passing through the 40A fuse and that is when using reverse or if one had jumper cables attached to the battery jump starting another vehicle. Starter motor current alone during reverse operation is 80A.

The 40A fuse is not a fast blow type and will/does handle short over amperage situations but the question is for how long? A safer more reasonable alternative might be a 70 or 80A maxi-fuse for those short term usages. The wire from alternator to fuse is 10ga? (maybe 8) and robust.


This is actually incorrect. The starter/reverse motor, when engaged, is actually connected to the battery with NO FUSE whatsoever. It can potentially draw hundreds of amps instantaneously, which would blow any fuse connected to it. This is the same on all Goldwings. The starter current does not pass through the master fuse.

Starter.gif


I did not write that starter motor current was protected by a fuse. Correct that it is direct from battery, and when there is an 80 amp draw on battery from starter motor during reverse operation the alternator will then output more amps for the draw on the electrical system. Alternator current does go through that 55A fuse to the bikes electrical system (battery).

Using the starter for engine starting is moot with regard to the fuse because until engine starts and is running alternator is not producing any current.
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jenagle
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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby jenagle » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:15 pm

With the Compufire alternator (which I have on my bike), they recommend the use of an AGM battery, and the kit actually includes the double fuses, and a spacer. This is the Compufire fuse on my GL1500 - notice there are two fuses in parallel, and (very important) they are separated by a spacer at each end, so that they are not touching each other:

Read more: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25025&p=139353#p139353#ixzz3LoZVKqCK


So if I understand correctly, the system can draw 100+ amps through the two fuses before either one of them blows (I'm not talking about starting.) Is the wire heavy enough to pass this current? I'm confused.

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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby Mh434 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:27 pm

If it helps any, I have a 95-amp alternator, a pretty heavy electrical budget (heated grips, lots o' lights, etc.) and I'm using the original single OEM fuse & an AGM battery. So far, even with all the load I can put on it (absolutely everything turned on), the fuse stays cold, so I'm guessing I'm not stressing it at all.

As for batteries, as far as I'm concerned, any brand of appropriately-sized AGM battery will do the job admirably. As another poster (who worked at a battery factory) mentioned a while ago, one manufacturer of batteries may produce them for many, many different brandings, from supposedly "El Cheapo" to top-of-the-line brands...all being identical, except for the stickers on the outside. Don't feel that a known brand name & astronomical price necessarily means you're getting a better battery. The generic "Interstate" ones I've been buying in the past few years have been the best I've owned, and the last couple of high-dollar Odyssey units I've had were, well, less than good.

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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby jenagle » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:29 am

Thanks Mh434, and all who answered. It's clearer now.

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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby ct1500 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:51 am

The CompuFire claim of being able to produce 60A at idle I can confirm as correct.

I had another bike in whose owner informed me that he replaced his with a "high output" one. After a couple of tests it was clear that it produced slightly LESS amperage at idle than an OEM 40A. :)
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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby lamasue » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:58 am

my question is then do i put an higher amp fuse on main or go with 55amp dogbone what i have

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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:16 am

lamasue wrote:my question is then do i put an higher amp fuse on main or go with 55amp dogbone what i have


The correct answer is to put a fuse that is just large enough to power what you will be using. Of course, knowing what that current draw is, is a bit of a trick. If you have a current shunt ammeter, you could put that in place of your master fuse, start the bike, turn everything on and see what it is drawing (including the battery charging immediately after the start). You can then add say 15% to this value, and put that fuse in place.

If your bike is running just fine with the 55 amp fuse, then there is no reason to increase it. A higher amperage fuse will not make your bike operate any different, unless you are drawing more than 55 amps.

One of the main benefits of the higher-amperage alternators is that when you have an alternator running at 80% of its rated output most of the time, it is going to generate more heat, and its life will be affected. A high-output alternator running at 40% of its rated output most of the time will generate far less heat, is under far less stress, and its life will be much longer as a result. This is the same reason piston airplane engines are commonly "derated" - an airplane engine capable of producing 180 HP will be derated in a particular airplane to 160 HP. Airplane engines, unlike engines in cars and bikes, run at or near full rated output almost all the time. So running the engine at 160 HP instead of 180 HP means less heat and stress on the engine than it was originally designed for, which means longer life and better reliability.

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Re: altinator upgrade

Postby ct1500 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:12 am

lamasue wrote:my question is then do i put an higher amp fuse on main or go with 55amp dogbone what i have


Unless a dead short occurs nothing has changed electrically on the bike except the amount of current that can flow through the fuse to the battery and in the case of the CompuFire would be 90A maximum, hence the 110A fused headroom. Except as outlined earlier in the thread I can think of no other times that the extra (maximum 60A@idle 90A@highRPM) current of the big alternator would even be used and when used they are of such brief and/or infrequent duration that the amp carrying capacity of the wire is low on the list of concerns.

110,70,80,90A fuse your choice. I personally would shy away from the OEM 55 as it will be breached slightly during normal reverse operation (with a caveat).

This would be with a CompuFire and their known charge parameters, other alternators will behave differently.


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