Cam pully alignment


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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guitarzan
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Cam pully alignment

Postby guitarzan » Mon May 25, 2015 6:10 pm



Hi,
I'm outside putting new timing belts on and everything looks to be going good. Two of the pulleys line up right on the money. The right Cam Pulley is off just a hair. Here is a picture of what it is. Can anyone tell me if this is within acceptable parameters? If its not, how do I fix it? Can I just move the right cam pulley to align it? Please let me know. Thank you all and I hope you're enjoying your Memorial Day. Please see attachment.

Frank
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Big Bob
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Motorcycle: 1996 GL1500A Aspencade

Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby Big Bob » Mon May 25, 2015 8:33 pm

I had the same issue when we did the timing belts on my '96 Aspencade, but my cam looked to be off by a whole tooth. When we first checked it before installing the new belts we were puzzled, not wanting to try to move it for fear of really messing something up, we opted to reinstall the belts and leave it the way we found it. No issue the bike runs just as good as it did when we took it apart. I've always been curious about this so I will be watching this post for results and answers. Good luck Guitarzan!

Bob
Bob Payette
Rosemount, MN
'96 GL1500A Aspencade, Red The Best Color!
143,000 miles and still going strong!
A bad day off is better than your best day at work!

fnickel
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby fnickel » Mon May 25, 2015 8:54 pm

Check to see that you are looking dead on against the pulleys (perpendicular to the pulley face), not looking at them at an angle (parallax error) which could give you a false reading of the position. Also, you want to make sure that you have taken up the slack on the proper side of the belt, as if the crankshaft were pulling the belt in the normal rotation direction of the engine and hence rotating the cam pulley. You want tension on the straight run, not on the run that goes over the tensioners. You want to have the position of the belt on the pulley teeth that gets your marks together the closest. Other than that, I know of no way to give you the fine adjustment to get your marks lined up to a fraction of mm. I believe there is no adjustment available as there is on some race engines, which would allow you to try dialling in different valve timing. The closest position of the marks will do just fine. You run no risk with being off a hair, and not even if you were off a whole tooth. My opinion, correct me if I'm wrong.

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robb
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby robb » Mon May 25, 2015 9:46 pm

Did you rotate crankshaft 360 degree 2 complete times and recheck the alignment. Two times equals 1 complete rotation
of engine. If it looks good, tighten the tensioners and your good to go.

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guitarzan
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby guitarzan » Mon May 25, 2015 10:20 pm

Hi Robb,
Yes I rotated the crankshaft 360 degree counterclockwise just like the service manual said to do, I actually did it 4 different times to see if I could get it closer to the mark on the engine, but as the picture shows that's the best I can get it. Everything else lines up on the money. Thank you Robb.

Frank

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guitarzan
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby guitarzan » Mon May 25, 2015 10:30 pm

fnickel wrote:Check to see that you are looking dead on against the pulleys (perpendicular to the pulley face), not looking at them at an angle (parallax error) which could give you a false reading of the position. Also, you want to make sure that you have taken up the slack on the proper side of the belt, as if the crankshaft were pulling the belt in the normal rotation direction of the engine and hence rotating the cam pulley. You want tension on the straight run, not on the run that goes over the tensioners. You want to have the position of the belt on the pulley teeth that gets your marks together the closest. Other than that, I know of no way to give you the fine adjustment to get your marks lined up to a fraction of mm. I believe there is no adjustment available as there is on some race engines, which would allow you to try dialling in different valve timing. The closest position of the marks will do just fine. You run no risk with being off a hair, and not even if you were off a whole tooth. My opinion, correct me if I'm wrong.


fnickel,
Thank you for the response. The Service Manuel says to rotate the Crank pulley counterclockwise 360 degrees twice for every one turn of thee cam pulley. I did it 4 times trying to line it up better, but when the other 2 pulleys are lined up on the money and the right cam pulley is off this little bit, that's all I can do. I was thinking of putting a wrench on the nut and try turning the right cam pulley just a hair clockwise to see if it would line up, but I was afraid that I might screw something up. That's why I posted here. When the engine is running do the pulleys turn clockwise or counterclockwise do you know? I was just curious as to why it wanted me to turn it counterclockwise but maybe that gives the right tension on the belt taking up the slack. Your thoughts.

Frank

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robb
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby robb » Mon May 25, 2015 11:28 pm

Does not really matter at the speed of your hand. I actually rotated mine both directions to assure alignment. Another thing, you are at the mercy of the belt so close as you can will do. From the looks of your bike you don't have a problem.

fnickel
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby fnickel » Tue May 26, 2015 5:04 am

I don't believe that the pulley would be adjustable on the cam itself. I have not had the pulley off, but I'm guessing that it is held in one position with a keyway, and that there is no possibility for a fine adjustment. That would be risky, if the pulley would be held in position by the nut alone. I could foresee a lot of engine crashes! I don't remember which way the engine turns, but it should probably say in the manual.

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robb
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby robb » Tue May 26, 2015 7:11 am

Timing gears are keyed and have no adjustment.

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guitarzan
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby guitarzan » Tue May 26, 2015 3:50 pm

Ok Robb,
Thank you much.

Frank

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Mh434
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby Mh434 » Tue May 26, 2015 8:35 pm

I wish MINE had lined up that close!! Mine was off a full 1/2 tooth, and no amount of fiddling could get it closer. It runs like a champ, so I guess that's just the way it is.

I suspect that the manufacture of the belts is what causes this. If a belt is made even 1 mm longer than it should be (tolerances in the manufacturing machinery, perhaps?), that would account for up to a 1/2 tooth misalignment, and there's no way to adjust anything else in there to deal with it.

As others have said, IMHO you're good to go. Cinch 'er up & ride 'er, cowboy!

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guitarzan
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby guitarzan » Tue May 26, 2015 9:18 pm

That's true about belt manufacture. I never thought about it. Well I'm going to button it up and get on that puppy and ride. Thank you much.

Frank

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Mh434
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby Mh434 » Wed May 27, 2015 11:53 am

The only thing I would add is that, assuming the bike was running well when you went to change the belts, take note (or better yet, pictures) of the old belts & mark alignments before removing the belts or releasing the tensioners.

I did this (just because I'm paranoid), and one of mine was almost 1/2 tooth off before I started. Turns out, there was no choice on the new belts either (I suspect mine had been changed already, once), and once installed & aligned exactly like the old ones, it still ran perfectly. I'm glad I had done this, because if I hadn't, I would have agonized over what to do for who knows how long!! :shock:

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guitarzan
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby guitarzan » Wed May 27, 2015 12:43 pm

I know what ya mean about agonizing. Man that's all I've been doing. Its been so long since I even had a bike that the thought of messing this one up freaks me out big time. I'm taking my time and keeping a record of everything. I purchased the bike September of 2014 and rode it home and I haven't rode it since. The last time I was on a bike was back in 1988 and I sold it when my Son was born. The wife encouraged me to do so.

So I'm just a little gun shy I guess. There sure are some nice folks on this site and the information and pictures are so helpful. I took my laptop out in the garage and just followed the instructions. What you say about the belts is true, that determines the final alignment within a certain range.

Well I better it at it. Thank you so much.

Frank

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robb
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby robb » Wed May 27, 2015 10:38 pm

Remove the plugs and engine will turn with ease, just turn till it's close enough your happy. If marks line up nearly the same place every other turn then accept that it is right. If it don't there may be a problem with the belt.

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guitarzan
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby guitarzan » Thu May 28, 2015 7:39 am

Yep, thanks I already did that. Where it is is where it is.

Frank

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Mh434
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby Mh434 » Sat May 30, 2015 5:32 pm

If it makes you feel any better, by the way, yours lined up closer than mine did (and mine runs great, so I'm sure yours will too).

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guitarzan
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby guitarzan » Sat May 30, 2015 11:32 pm

Glad to hear that. When you put tension on the belt with the tension adjuster did it cause the other pulleys to move at all and get anything out of alignment? Do you belong to goldwingfacts? Here is their take on changing timing belts. www.goldwingfacts.com/1500timingbelts.htm


Frank

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Mh434
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby Mh434 » Sun May 31, 2015 12:34 am

Yep, I'm on Goldwingfacts, too.

When I tensioned the belts, I expected things to move a bit...but nothing moved at all. The alignment, such as it was, stayed the same. To be honest, I'd hoped the tensioning might suck up some of the 1/2 tooth misalignment, but it didn't. On the plus side, it didn't get worse!

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guitarzan
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Re: Cam pully alignment

Postby guitarzan » Sun May 31, 2015 11:56 am

Good to know. Thanks




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