Clutch and brake flush question


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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Sawdust62
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Clutch and brake flush question

Postby Sawdust62 » Sun May 31, 2015 8:13 pm



(New owner of my first goldwing) I just flushed my clutch because I was having some grabbing when the bike got hot in stop-and-go traffic. when I took it for a test drive afterward, I didn't make it to the stop sign at the end of the street. The engine idles very rough and stalls when I try to start moving. At first I thought it was just needing to warm up, but it didn't get better after about five minutes. I flushed and bled the rear brake at the same time since I had an open bottle of dot4. Is there anything about the brakes and clutch fluid levels that would cause the engine to run rough? I'm going to get a vacuum bleeder kit this week and redo the flush and bleed, but wanted to know if I'm missing something else.



rzaugg
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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby rzaugg » Sun May 31, 2015 11:16 pm

Did you buy it from a private individual, or a dealer? Bleeding the clutch and brakes would not affect the engine idle. If you got it from a dealer, I would think that they at least checked fluids and filters, if not changed them. If it was a private seller, it may have been sitting around for a while. May need a little TLC. Seafoam works great in the gas tank and filters, plugs, etc. are something that never hurt to replace.

Welcome to the world and joy of owning a Goldwing. Best thing I ever did, and was so good, got one for my wife too.

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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby RBGERSON » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:15 am

If the clutch is not working properly and not fully disengaged it will stall the engine at low throttle...or if brakes are not releasing same thing.
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

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Sawdust62
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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby Sawdust62 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:15 pm

RBGERSON wrote:If the clutch is not working properly and not fully disengaged it will stall the engine at low throttle...or if brakes are not releasing same thing.


This doesn't sound like the problem. I was on a slight incline and didn't feel any resistance from brakes or clutch engaged. When I got moving it did run smooth up to third gear back to the house, (about 75 yards) just wouldn't idle when I stopped in the driveway, even in neutral. To tell the whole story, I had to replace my rear wheel because of a nail, so I changed the brake pads at the same time. I also changed the air filter, fuel filter, sub air and cruise filters. It was obvious that the previous owner hadn't done any servicing in a while. The air filter was covered with bird seed (see photos in the How-To Article) and the clutch fluid was very dark yellow, like German beer, and the clutch fluid was down to the drain in the bottom of the reservoir. I test drove it after reassembling the bike but the rear brakes were dragging, so I pulled the saddlebag off and cleaned some corrosion and pitting off the rear brake pistons with steel wool, then bled and flushed. The engine ran fine during the test drive, which lasted about an hour. Since i had an open bottle of Dot4, I did the clutch at the same time. After reassembly, this is when the problem started. I thought I read somewhere that the engine has a cutoff if the clutch or brake fluid is low.
Last edited by Sawdust62 on Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:36 pm

Is the engine running rough/stalling when it is in gear and you are holding the clutch in, or is it doing it when the transmission is in neutral?

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Sawdust62
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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby Sawdust62 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:49 pm

WingAdmin wrote:Is the engine running rough/stalling when it is in gear and you are holding the clutch in, or is it doing it when the transmission is in neutral?


I started it up after work today to do some investigating. When I started it, it ran semi-smooth for the first minute or so with the choke about 75% and maintaining 1500 rpm. As I began to reduce the choke position, it started to sputter at around 800 rpm. If I leave the choke down to maintain 1000 rpm, it idles smooth. As soon as I reduce the choke, it begins to sputter. If I give it throttle it sputters and sometimes dies. If I cut the choke off it falls to 500 rpm and sputters and dies. The whole time it was in neutral. I ran it for about 3-4 minutes. I should add that I went for a one hour ride Saturday after changing the tire and all the filters listed above, and had no problems during that ride other than the rear brake pads dragging, (that's another thread waiting to happen). I've never had to warm it up for more than 3-4 minutes before riding in the past few weeks of ownership. I know very little about engine operation, not even sure what the choke does besides aid in cold starting. I'm retired military aircraft electrical technician, so I have experience working with tools and machinery. Working on pneumatics, hydraulics and fuel systems are not my forte. Changing the rear wheel/tire was the most in-depth disassembly/reassembly I've ever attempted thanks to your excellent How-To-Article.

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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:34 pm

Is it running rough - i.e. are all cylinders firing? Check the exhaust headers coming from each cylinder and make sure they are all getting hot.

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Sawdust62
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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby Sawdust62 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:06 pm

WingAdmin wrote:Is it running rough - i.e. are all cylinders firing? Check the exhaust headers coming from each cylinder and make sure they are all getting hot.

Yes, it appears that all six headers are about the same temp after running for 5 minutes, just hot enough to be uncomfortable but no burned fingers. There is a rubber blanket covering the whole manifold, made it impossible to reach the forward most headers without removing the lower side fairing. I'm assuming that is supposed to be there? While checking the headers, I did remember that Saturday night after my test ride, the bike backfired when I shut it off. Not too loud, but it did cough or pop upon shutdown. I pulled one of the plug wires loose (the one in the photo below) trying to force my arm behind the fairing to reach the fwd most header. I suspected it was loose already so I reconnected and started the engine again. It seemed to run better, but still sounded too much like a tractor than a Goldwing. The sound it makes when idling is loud underneath the bike, on the exhaust manifold. Using the throttle, I got up to about 2000 rpm and it sputters slightly and oscillates between 1900 -2100 while holding the throttle steady. The choke was fully "off" by that time, but still no movement of the temp needle on the inst. panel.

After inspecting the interior of the bike more today, I'm beginning to suspect that it sat outside last winter in Illinois. Found some nesting material by the battery.

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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby redial » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:24 pm

Because brake fluid attracts water/humidity, never re-use an opened bottle of brake/clutch fluid. It should always be a new sealed container that is used. It may be alright for a couple of days, but the best idea is that once you have done the job, get rid of the container and any of the contents that are left. But be responsible, and dispose of it responsibly.
Len in Kapunda

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Sawdust62
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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby Sawdust62 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:17 am

redial wrote:Because brake fluid attracts water/humidity, never re-use an opened bottle of brake/clutch fluid. It should always be a new sealed container that is used. It may be alright for a couple of days, but the best idea is that once you have done the job, get rid of the container and any of the contents that are left. But be responsible, and dispose of it responsibly.


Yes I know. The above mentioned servicing of the brake and clutch all took place within a 90 minute span of time. After servicing the brake, I serviced the clutch so as not to have to dispose of 2/3 bottle of freshly opened Dot4 fluid. I would rather dispose of used fluids.

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lamasue
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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby lamasue » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:30 am

just an observation on nesting material that may effect engine mine was jammed under the carbs i cleaned it out by taking plastic on left side off and looking under carbs or aircleaner area with led flashlight, and dug it out if the animal has chewed and vac hoses and wires that may be the problem

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Re: Clutch and brake flush question

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:27 pm

Sawdust62 wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:Is it running rough - i.e. are all cylinders firing? Check the exhaust headers coming from each cylinder and make sure they are all getting hot.

Yes, it appears that all six headers are about the same temp after running for 5 minutes, just hot enough to be uncomfortable but no burned fingers. There is a rubber blanket covering the whole manifold, made it impossible to reach the forward most headers without removing the lower side fairing. I'm assuming that is supposed to be there? While checking the headers, I did remember that Saturday night after my test ride, the bike backfired when I shut it off. Not too loud, but it did cough or pop upon shutdown. I pulled one of the plug wires loose (the one in the photo below) trying to force my arm behind the fairing to reach the fwd most header. I suspected it was loose already so I reconnected and started the engine again. It seemed to run better, but still sounded too much like a tractor than a Goldwing. The sound it makes when idling is loud underneath the bike, on the exhaust manifold. Using the throttle, I got up to about 2000 rpm and it sputters slightly and oscillates between 1900 -2100 while holding the throttle steady. The choke was fully "off" by that time, but still no movement of the temp needle on the inst. panel.

After inspecting the interior of the bike more today, I'm beginning to suspect that it sat outside last winter in Illinois. Found some nesting material by the battery.


If you're looking at headers under the rubber mat (and yes that is supposed to be there) then you're looking at intake headers, not exhaust. Exhaust headers come out the bottom of the engine. Exhaust headers will DEFINITELY burn your fingers after 5 minutes of running - they should be uncomfortably hot within 30 seconds or so.

The reason I was asking is because it does sound like a cylinder or two might not be running, and you could tell this by checking the temperature of the exhaust headers. If you had an unwanted tenant in there doing some damage to electrical wires, and you disturbed those wires by doing any work, it's possible you now have a cylinder not running as a result.

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Re: engine running rough

Postby Sawdust62 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:07 pm

WingAdmin wrote:The reason I was asking is because it does sound like a cylinder or two might not be running, and you could tell this by checking the temperature of the exhaust headers. If you had an unwanted tenant in there doing some damage to electrical wires, and you disturbed those wires by doing any work, it's possible you now have a cylinder not running as a result.


I thought I posted a follow up but I don't see it now; Ok, version 2. All the cylinders are hot. But after removing 132 different panels, (seemingly) and covers to gain access to the headers, I started the bike to test the header temperatures and heard a hissing noise emanating from the air cleaner area. I opened it up and removed the air filter, (after shutting off the bike) and restarted the engine. The noise is coming from what I assume are the carbs, and sounds like when you stick your fingers into the end of a shop-vac hose. A loud sucking noise. I think I'm narrowing down the problem. I don't see a How-To-Article on removing the air cleaner housing to gain access to the carbs. There are marshmallow size pistons in the openings that are spring loaded. They didn't move when I throttled up but they move when I push using my finger. I know some of you are reading this and laughing out loud. Yeah, I may not know engines but I know the difference between a quark and a lepton. Oh, and no I didn't let any of the bird seed fall into the carbs when I changed the filter last weekend.
Last edited by Sawdust62 on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sawdust62
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Re: Engine running rough

Postby Sawdust62 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:18 pm

Two things, we need to change the title of this thread, and I have the four inch binder with the owners manual/shop service manual. I'll browse that tomorrow to see if there are instructions for removing the air cleaner. I'll take photos too for a new DIY article if you think it needs to be done.




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