1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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phynneman
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:11 pm
Location: Pensacola FL
Motorcycle: 1995 GL1500A Aspencade

1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby phynneman » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:23 am



I'm stumped.
I have a 1995A, my third GL and seventh bike. Bike was running great before this all started.

This adventure started with the rear master cylinder needing a rebuild. I knew it was coming so no surprise.

Took off all the necessary parts and rebuilt the master cylinder, bleed the brakes and everything worked properly. While putting the heat shield/reverse resistor back in place the gas tank started leaking from the bottom. Very glad it happened with a cold engine and while in my shop and not on the road. Drained the tank and inspected it. Rusted through with a pin hole in the bottom. I guess the banging and pushing the heat shields and ratcheting the bake bolts popped the rust loose.

Took two days to get the tank out because I can only work on it in the evenings after work. Ordered a replacement tank and cleaned and "Red Koted" the newer tank. After several days installed the new tank. Filled with fuel, hit the starter and engine turned over but nothing fired. Ok, I'm thinking not enough vacuum to open the fuel petcock to get fuel to the carbs. Got my trusty can of starter fluid, shot a squirt into the air intake, hit the starter and she started, and then quit. Tried it again with same results.

Opened up the air cleaner and look down the carbs, twisted the throttle and watched fuel squirt down the throat. Hit the starter and no varoom. Poured some fuel into the carbs and hit the starter and the engine fired up and then quit. OK, I'm thinking. Maybe the fuel pump isn't working. I did the fuel pump check by jumping the wires and glass jar and timer. Fuel pump putting out the volume it should but what came out was the color of milk not fuel. Ok, need to drain the carb bowls and clean them out, might as well rebuild them seeing that the bike is 20 years old. Glade I did, the carbs were a mess inside. Cleaned the carbs in my ultra sonic cleaner, got a rebuild kit from Dandakk's and put it all back together.

Filled the carbs with clean filtered gas, made sure everything was hooked up and hit the starter, still no varoom. Poured some fuel down the throats, varoom, cough, died. Tried it again with same results. Twisted the throttle and fuel pumped out of the accelerator jets. OK, I'm thinking, I've got spark, I got fuel, I got a lean mixture, I must have a vacuum leak.

I pulled the fuel tank back out last night and using a mirror and flash light searched every where I could see, I already have the plastic off the sides so I pushed and pulled the rubber mat around to look at the hoses on each side. Everything is in place that I can see. All the hoses to carbs are in place.

I'm stumped, it was running when I started this adventure. It wasn't running once I replaced the fuel tank but at that time I had not touched the anything forward of the fuel tank. What am I missing?



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WingAdmin
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Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:59 am

You have air, you have fuel, you have spark - but do you have enough spark? The GL1500 takes an awful lot of power to run. If your battery is at all weak, it won't run - or won't run well, or for long. It's worth having a look at, anyway.

phynneman
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:11 pm
Location: Pensacola FL
Motorcycle: 1995 GL1500A Aspencade

Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby phynneman » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:15 am

I know that weak spark can be an issue and the bikes battery alone is probably not up to turning over the engine long enough to pump fuel into the carbs when they are dry. So I use both the bikes battery and a jumped car battery when I have been trying to start the bike. With both batteries the engine turns over quickly and has enough amp/hours to not run down while attempting numerous starts.

Good thought for those who are not aware of the weak battery/weak spark problem and I thank you for suggestion.

Phynneman

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spiralout
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Motorcycle: 1975 GL1000 (gone)
1980 GL1100I (with '77 1000 engine)
1996 GL1500 SE

Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby spiralout » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:50 am

Battery would be my suggestion, too. I like how you said you've done the most pita jobs on the 1500, pulling the tank and rear master cyl, like they were nothing but a thing :D
Did you replace the fuel filter and rebuild the petcock? I would as long as I was that far in there.

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ct1500
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Location: Glastonbury,CT
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Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby ct1500 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:15 pm

It absolutely isn't the battery if it starts with external fuel/spray dumped into the carbs.

What is this milk colored gasoline you are writing about when testing fuel pump, my guess is whatever you lined the tank with (which is not needed on new) has contaminated the system including the fuel in bowls.

Find the drain screws for bowls and open them up to remove bad fuel, drain remaining fuel in line from petcock to carbs and try running off a known good external fuel source.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

phynneman
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:11 pm
Location: Pensacola FL
Motorcycle: 1995 GL1500A Aspencade

Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby phynneman » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:29 pm

I had rebuild the fuel petcock last year and I replaced the fuel filter with a new one from Dandakk's. When the engine wouldn't start the first time I checked the petcock by removing it from the bike and blowing through it, as expected no air would go through. I then connected my vacuum pump from my brake bleed kit and pulled a slight vacuum and blew through the petcock, air passed through. The petcock also held a vacuum for over two minutes before I disconnected it and put it back into the bike.

I did not buy a "new" tank but one from a salvaged bike. It was pretty well rust free and clean but I decided to de-rust it and clean it and "Red Kote" it anyway. I have use "Red Kote" on two other bikes and if done to clean tank and done properly it works very well.

The milky stuff from the fuel pump was before I rebuilt the carbs. It was probably a mixture of water and fuel still in the hoses from the old tank and when the fuel pump got tossed outside when the old tank started leaking. The leak wasn't a drip, drip it was a pin hole with fuel pouring out. I had 4 gallons of gas in the tank, no rear wheel on the bike to roll the bike out of my shop and a live battery on a charger four feet away. My shop is a 40' x 40' steel building with all of my wood working tools and lots of wood, so leaking fuel is a big deal. I didn't want to disconnect the battery charger because that could/would cause a spark. Yes I have several 10 lbs fire extinguishers but they are no good against four gallons of burning fuel.

First thing I did was put a pan under the bike and next thing was to RUN to the breaker panel at the other end of the shop and pull the main breakers. lucky I had a empty 5 gallon can just out side the shop and a hose to siphon out the gas. Ever try starting a siphon with one hand while your other hand is under the bike pressing against a hole? I knew the hose couldn't get all the gas so while the hose was draining the tank I opened up the fuel cover, one handed and removed the fuel pump. I just tossed the pump outside to keep as much gas out of my shop as I could. There may have been some rain and the pump got some water in it. When I put it back into the newer tank I should have made sure it was properly drained but didn't. That is why after I found the milky stuff I pulled the carbs and rebuilt them. I figured the carbs had the water/gas mix in them also.

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ct1500
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Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby ct1500 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:37 pm

None of this is making any sense, there has to be more.

By starting up on spray that confirms ignition and electrical are OK. Fuel pump good and getting gas to carbs but wont start. ???

Test that fuel pump is indeed getting voltage on the power wire from ECU which will have voltage only with engine cranking or running.

Bike was running great but your glad carbs were cleaned because of the mess inside? If only a little water was inside carbs from a pump being outdoors it wouldn't be a mess it would be a little water inside bowls, what is it???

Try starting again but with gravity fed external tank to fuel line after petcock. If it still wont start and still can start on spray remove the carbs again to find what the problem really is.

Remove spark plugs and check if they are wet or dry during the starting attempts. Did you reconnect and verify choke rod operation? Are throttle plates closed so there is a vacuum being produced in carb circuits?

There is nothing on the back half of the engine near the gas tank removal job which would prevent fuel in carbs getting into engine.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

phynneman
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:11 pm
Location: Pensacola FL
Motorcycle: 1995 GL1500A Aspencade

Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby phynneman » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:50 am

When I pulled the carbs I was sure there would be water in them. I didn't find any but I had drained the carbs after I took them off the bike but before I opened them up. Still there should have been some small water droplets in them and there were none.
The carbs did have a very fine red wet sludge. Since the sludge was firmly attached to the aluminum it was not something that got there recently, I will try to attach picture.

After prolong cranking and no starting I had checked one spark plug to see if it was wet or dry, it was dry. That was one reason I suspected a lean mixture and then thought it was a vacuum leak.

Throttle plates are working correctly and choke is hooked up.

My dad was a licensed APP, airframe & power plant mechanic and I grew up around engines and machinery so I have done most everything I know to check for on a sick engine, but with all the hoses and valves on this beast I not sure how they all interact and what it might be.

I will check the voltage to the pump when cranking.
I will do a gravity fed and see if that works.

I really do appreciate suggestions,
Thank you
Phynneman
Attachments
Red sludge but no water
Red sludge but no water
After being cleaned and reassembled
After being cleaned and reassembled

billcrawford
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Location: flower mound. texas
Motorcycle: 1990 goldwing 1500 gl/se

Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby billcrawford » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:10 pm

did you get it running?

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lamasue
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Location: fayette,maine
Motorcycle: 2000 1500se

Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby lamasue » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:09 pm

im quessing red sludge is from stabil I use aviation gas to store my bike, cleaner

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RBGERSON
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had every year from 75 to 83

Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby RBGERSON » Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:18 am

Has to be a fuel delivery issue since it runs when you add fuel to the carbs with spray bottle. If you try a gravity feed system that bypasses the tank, pump, and petcock and she runs you know where to look one of those three..if not then it has to be in the carbs..I'd say pull all the jets and clean them I bet they are clogged.
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

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Aussie81Interstate
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Re: 1500 Cascading issues, now it won't start

Postby Aussie81Interstate » Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:30 am

You used RED KOTE and you have RED SLUDGE - what do you think is common from those two things.

Methinks that the red kote has not cured long or hard enough and you have just flushed some of it through your carbs. So rip the carbs off and also the jets, everything needs to be gone through starting from where the fuel leaves the tank and going forward to the carbs.
:)




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