Wiring accessory switches question


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Wiring accessory switches question

Postby NVSB4 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:33 am



I bought a Knockout panel that has an outlet (for charging) and 4 switches. My intent is to wire the outlet to be hot all of the time, so no problem. I want to use the switches for extra driving lights, my "ring of fire", etc. so I can have them on only when I want.
I have a fused power block for the power and a block for ground.
My question is, do I need to add relays for each accessory if I want them to be switched since each is individually fused? Or can I just run the power wire from the accessory to one post of the switch and from the power block to the other?


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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby Uncle Fester » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:06 pm

This is just me personally, but I always wire stuff like that with a fuse BEFORE the switch and a relay as close to the accessory as possible, that cuts the voltage drop down as much as possable, givinf all the needed voltage to the accessory.
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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:31 am

NVSB4 wrote:I bought a Knockout panel that has an outlet (for charging) and 4 switches. My intent is to wire the outlet to be hot all of the time, so no problem. I want to use the switches for extra driving lights, my "ring of fire", etc. so I can have them on only when I want.
I have a fused power block for the power and a block for ground.
My question is, do I need to add relays for each accessory if I want them to be switched since each is individually fused? Or can I just run the power wire from the accessory to one post of the switch and from the power block to the other?


First off, before you do anything, pull the cheap relay out of that otherwise excellent Electrical Connection power plate and chuck it. Buy a quality 30 amp automotive relay from any decent automotive store and plug it in there instead. I had a drop of 1.5 volts when I installed the power plate, and I tracked it down to that cheap Chinese relay that they used (which was heating up as a result).

You do not need separate relays. The relay on the power plate switches on when your accessory bus turns on, which then powers up the various circuits on the power plate that have individual fuses. You can then run a wire from the terminal on the power plate to whatever switch you are using for that accessory. Here's my very poor diagram of this:

Power plate diagram
Power plate diagram


As for the outlet which will be on at all times, make sure you put a fuse on that! And make sure the fuse is as close to the battery as possible. When installing wiring, you want the fuse to be as close to the battery as you can, so that the amount of unfused (i.e. unprotected) wire is as small as possible.

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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby NVSB4 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:59 am

WingAdmin wrote:First off, before you do anything, pull the cheap relay out of that otherwise excellent Electrical Connection power plate and chuck it. Buy a quality 30 amp automotive relay from any decent automotive store and plug it in there instead. I had a drop of 1.5 volts when I installed the power plate, and I tracked it down to that cheap Chinese relay that they used (which was heating up as a result).

Read your review and that was one of the first things I did, thanks. :D

WingAdmin wrote:You do not need separate relays. The relay on the power plate switches on when your accessory bus turns on, which then powers up the various circuits on the power plate that have individual fuses. You can then run a wire from the terminal on the power plate to whatever switch you are using for that accessory. Here's my very poor diagram of this:

OK, but don't I have to run a ground from the accessory or switch?

WingAdmin wrote:As for the outlet which will be on at all times, make sure you put a fuse on that! And make sure the fuse is as close to the battery as possible. When installing wiring, you want the fuse to be as close to the battery as you can, so that the amount of unfused (i.e. unprotected) wire is as small as possible.

I've already gone to an auto parts store and bought an inline blade fuse holder similar to the one that comes with the power plate, but with a 10 amp fuse.
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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:27 pm

NVSB4 wrote:OK, but don't I have to run a ground from the accessory or switch?


You can use any piece of the frame for a ground, or run a ground wire back to your ground block. I had a terminal strip hanging around, I connected one end of it directly to the battery, and used the various terminals on it as grounds for the various accessories.

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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby eidolon » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:01 pm

I have sort of a similar setup and it has a ground wire coming from it.
Where is the power plate in this example grounded?

I modified your sketch to try and illustrate my total lack of understanding here... :-)

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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:27 am

eidolon wrote:I have sort of a similar setup and it has a ground wire coming from it.
Where is the power plate in this example grounded?

I modified your sketch to try and illustrate my total lack of understanding here... :-)



The power plate has a very small ground wire that is used ONLY to ground the switching relay, and should not be used for anything else.

The grounds for the various circuits being provided by the power plate can go wherever - you can fasten it to a bolt attached to the frame. Or, do what I did, and run the grounds for each circuit back to a common place, which is then connected to the ground post on the battery.

Cyclemax sells this ground terminal for just this purpose:

http://cyclemax.com/inc/sdetail/master_ ... ock/249027



It's not the one I used (I already had something on hand that I used) but it would work just fine.

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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby NVSB4 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:23 pm

WingAdmin wrote:It's not the one I used (I already had something on hand that I used) but it would work just fine.

I started to get the Cyclemax ground block as well, but then decided to do what you had done.
I got this terminal strip and ran wire connecting the terminals on one side.
By connecting one terminal to the battery, I now have 7 others to use as ground points and saved $20 as well.

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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby eidolon » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:40 am

WingAdmin wrote:The power plate has a very small ground wire that is used ONLY to ground the switching relay, and should not be used for anything else.


If you have time could you sketch me a diagram of the "very small ground wire" because I had one of these and there was no way to ground it.
As you can see I am using past tense here. I am still curious as to how this kind of power relay is supposed to work.

I have a PDM 60 now and it definitely has a ground...
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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby eidolon » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:47 am

NVSB4 wrote:I started to get the Cyclemax ground block as well, but then decided to do what you had done.


Hi NVSB4,

This is the one I have...

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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby NVSB4 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:51 am

eidolon wrote:If you have time could you sketch me a diagram of the "very small ground wire" because I had one of these and there was no way to ground it.

If I understand what he is saying, the ground (black wire with the ring terminal) and power (long blue wire) wires are very small gauge as you can see in the picture below. I wondered about them as well and almost replaced them with a heavier gauge wire.


eidolon wrote:This is the one I have.

That is basically the same thing. The power panel has 6 outlets, so I wanted to have at least 6 ground terminals, just in case.
That and it was easily available at Autozone for $5.
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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby eidolon » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:19 pm

NVSB4 wrote:If I understand what he is saying, the ground (black wire with the ring terminal) and power (long blue wire) wires are very small gauge as you can see in the picture below. I wondered about them as well and almost replaced them with a heavier gauge wire.


Mine did not have any black wires or any evident ground point. And the manufacturer was less than worthless when I asked for clarification...



In this device the Blue wire is the “trigger” wire.
Goes to the positive accessory terminal and activates the whole thing when the key is in the acc or on position. So no “Load”? hence it does not have to be large gauge.
Not sure with the Black wire. Just a ground. It would carry the full "Load" though so why is it a small gauge? No Idea.

Not sure why it needs 2? positive connections. Large gauge Red wire and smaller gauge red wire with the butt connector.

Maybe… I am confused with electricity and relays.



and while your example is good it has little to do with the diagram that I am asking about...one of these things is not like the other... :- ) and yet it is. Very confusing.
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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby NVSB4 » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:28 pm

WingAdmin does a lot better explaining and has better pictures here about the power panel than the stock picture shows.
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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:53 am

eidolon wrote:
NVSB4 wrote:In this device the Blue wire is the “trigger” wire.
Goes to the positive accessory terminal and activates the whole thing when the key is in the acc or on position. So no “Load”? hence it does not have to be large gauge.
Not sure with the Black wire. Just a ground. It would carry the full "Load" though so why is it a small gauge? No Idea.

Not sure why it needs 2? positive connections. Large gauge Red wire and smaller gauge red wire with the butt connector.


No...the blue wire is the trigger wire as you state. It is used to actuate the relay coil, which draws very little current (hence the small gauge wire).

The black wire is the ground ONLY for the relay coil. The relay coil needs +12V and ground to operate. The +12V is the blue trigger wire, the ground is the black wire. Again, it is very little current, hence the small gauge black wire.

NO facility is on this power plate for supplying ground for ANY other circuit or purpose. It supplies +12V ONLY. If you want a ground, you need use either the bike frame, or use a separate ground terminal.

The large gauge red wire connects to the battery. It is used to power all of the other circuits.

The smaller gauge red wire is for a battery charger. It is connected to the battery when the bike is turned OFF. You would connect, say, a Battery Tender to this lead. It would be connected to the battery for charging whenever the bike is turned off. When you turn the bike on, the unit disconnects this wire, disconnecting the charger from the battery.

Incidentally, all of this is described in the manual that comes with it.

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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby eidolon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:28 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
No...the blue wire is the trigger wire as you state. It is used to actuate the relay coil, which draws very little current (hence the small gauge wire).

The black wire is the ground ONLY for the relay coil. The relay coil needs +12V and ground to operate. The +12V is the blue trigger wire, the ground is the black wire. Again, it is very little current, hence the small gauge black wire.

NO facility is on this power plate for supplying ground for ANY other circuit or purpose. It supplies +12V ONLY. If you want a ground, you need use either the bike frame, or use a separate ground terminal.

The large gauge red wire connects to the battery. It is used to power all of the other circuits.

The smaller gauge red wire is for a battery charger. It is connected to the battery when the bike is turned OFF. You would connect, say, a Battery Tender to this lead. It would be connected to the battery for charging whenever the bike is turned off. When you turn the bike on, the unit disconnects this wire, disconnecting the charger from the battery.

Incidentally, all of this is described in the manual that comes with it.


OK I think I understand this one now and reading the link that NVSB4 provided,
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10890
explained this also.

As I do not have one of these I did not have a manual to look at so thanks for the help.
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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby w9r1x4 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:02 pm

eidolon wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:
No...the blue wire is the trigger wire as you state. It is used to actuate the relay coil, which draws very little current (hence the small gauge wire).

The black wire is the ground ONLY for the relay coil. The relay coil needs +12V and ground to operate. The +12V is the blue trigger wire, the ground is the black wire. Again, it is very little current, hence the small gauge black wire.

NO facility is on this power plate for supplying ground for ANY other circuit or purpose. It supplies +12V ONLY. If you want a ground, you need use either the bike frame, or use a separate ground terminal.

The large gauge red wire connects to the battery. It is used to power all of the other circuits.

The smaller gauge red wire is for a battery charger. It is connected to the battery when the bike is turned OFF. You would connect, say, a Battery Tender to this lead. It would be connected to the battery for charging whenever the bike is turned off. When you turn the bike on, the unit disconnects this wire, disconnecting the charger from the battery.

Incidentally, all of this is described in the manual that comes with it.


OK I think I understand this one now and reading the link that NVSB4 provided,
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10890
explained this also.

As I do not have one of these I did not have a manual to look at so thanks for the help.


If you want to make all the wiring/fuses/relay/ground block stuff really easy get yourself one of these: http://www.fuzeblocks.com/ It's made specifically for motorcycles. You can run up to 6 constant/switched connections off this fuse block. When I get around to it I'll put together a diagram of how mine was done if anyone's interested.



Ed

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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby eidolon » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:32 pm

Hi Ed,

Got one of these, http://pdm60.com, works very well.. a little spendy but I have the most expensive production motorcycle on the planet so I do not mind spending for quality and reliability. :-$
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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby w9r1x4 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:56 pm

eidolon wrote:Hi Ed,

Got one of these, http://pdm60.com, works very well.. a little spendy but I have the most expensive production motorcycle on the planet so I do not mind spending for quality and reliability. :-$

I looked at those but wasn't willing to spend $200, so I spent ~$100 instead....Talk about expensive bikes...I'm about to have my 1992 1500 triked...CSC Sport...in about a month.

Ed

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Re: Wiring accessory switches question

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:20 am

For the GL1500, I'd recommend the Electrical Connection Power Plate - it's economical, works great, and fits into the GL1500 like it was designed for it - because it was.




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