STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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WESTON
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STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WESTON » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:54 am



ON MY 2000 GL1500se bike has to be in neutral to start,what wires need to be disconnected to start bike in any gear with clutch disengaged,our is this not possible.



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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby mrenfro » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:52 am

My 1990 will start in gear with clutch lever pulled in. I thought they all would, maybe you have a stuck switch in the clutch lever?

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby dingdong » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:31 am

There is a switch that is activated by the clutch lever. If the switch is bad it won't start unless in neutral like you say yours is doing. There is also a possibility the clutch lever bushing is worn and just not activating the switch.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby joeincalif » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:58 am

There is a switch that is activated by the clutch lever if you have after market levers or fatter grips sometimes this will cause the switch to not be triggered
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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WESTON » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:20 am

THANKS FOR REPLYS BUT CLUTCH SWITCH IS WORKING PERFECT BUT IF TWO WIRES ATTACHED TO SWITCH ARE CONNECTED TOGETHER BIKE STILL WILL NOT START UNTIL IN NEUTRAL, ANY MORE IDEAS PLEASE.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby RBGERSON » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:27 am

So then the switch is bad..diode or whatever..not letting current thru ???
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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby NVSB4 » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:42 am

Since you have an SE, does the reverse work?
It could be the reverse lever switch.
Otherwise, you're going to have to trace wires from the gear position switch to the ECM to see if there is a ground short.
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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby kaikaipau » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:19 pm

Hi, thanks for your post! I don't want to be too elementary here, but just to be sure, the bike can only start in gear if the kickstand is up... then with the clutch lever pulled in. You probably already knew that, but just wanted to eliminate any possibility of confusion.
Hope you figure it all out!
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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby spiralout » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:04 pm

WESTON wrote:THANKS FOR REPLYS BUT CLUTCH SWITCH IS WORKING PERFECT BUT IF TWO WIRES ATTACHED TO SWITCH ARE CONNECTED TOGETHER BIKE STILL WILL NOT START UNTIL IN NEUTRAL, ANY MORE IDEAS PLEASE.

There are two switches the clutch lever activates.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WESTON » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:23 am

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR REPLIES PROBLEM IS BIKE HANDLEBAR GRIPS ARE ON THE LARGE SIZE SO DOES NOT ALLOW CLUTCH LEVER TO FULLY OPERATE THE TWO SWITCHES. MANY THANKS TO ALL PROBLEM KNOW SORTED.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby Ol' Man » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:51 am

ON MY 2000 GL1500se bike has to be in neutral to start,what wires need to be disconnected to start bike in any gear with clutch disengaged,our is this not possible.

Hope someone comes up with an answer as I'm having the same problem with my '96 GL1500A. I have switched out the micro switch and the clutch lever bushing with no change in starting.
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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:51 pm

Did you check the operation of the correct clutch switch? There are two - one that operates when the clutch lever is just slightly depressed - it disconnects the cruise control. The second switch operates when the clutch lever is fully depressed - that's the switch that allows you to start the bike when it is not in neutral.

Sometimes large, thick grips can prevent the lever from actuating that second switch.

Disconnect the leads from that second switch and put an ohmmeter on the switch connectors, then squeeze the clutch fully. Make sure you see the change on the ohmmeter when the switch actuates. If you're seeing that, then we can move on to the next stage of diagnostics.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby Ol' Man » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:19 pm

WingAdmin wrote:Did you check the operation of the correct clutch switch? There are two - one that operates when the clutch lever is just slightly depressed - it disconnects the cruise control. The second switch operates when the clutch lever is fully depressed - that's the switch that allows you to start the bike when it is not in neutral.

Sometimes large, thick grips can prevent the lever from actuating that second switch.

Disconnect the leads from that second switch and put an ohmmeter on the switch connectors, then squeeze the clutch fully. Make sure you see the change on the ohmmeter when the switch actuates. If you're seeing that, then we can move on to the next stage of diagnostics.

I don't have large thick grips. I tried the ohmmeter on both switches and saw the necessary changes on both. Keep in mind I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to motorcycle maintenance but I do put forth my best effort. :)
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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby robb » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:01 pm

Don't feel bad, I know what the book says but mine 89 will only start in neutral. Even took it to Honda dealer where they said all switches were working correctly. Everything on bike works without issue and they found no problem. They suggested swapping the ECU as a last resort but did not know if it would work then. It's done good by me for years and neutral is easy to find.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:32 am

robb wrote:Don't feel bad, I know what the book says but mine 89 will only start in neutral. Even took it to Honda dealer where they said all switches were working correctly. Everything on bike works without issue and they found no problem. They suggested swapping the ECU as a last resort but did not know if it would work then. It's done good by me for years and neutral is easy to find.


Swapping ECU's? Really? I would go find a different Honda dealer if they're making wild guesses like that. The starter circuit is not that complex, all they need to do is look at the diagram to figure out how to properly diagnose it, rather than making random guesses at swapping out unrelated items.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:36 am

Ol' Man wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:Did you check the operation of the correct clutch switch? There are two - one that operates when the clutch lever is just slightly depressed - it disconnects the cruise control. The second switch operates when the clutch lever is fully depressed - that's the switch that allows you to start the bike when it is not in neutral.

Sometimes large, thick grips can prevent the lever from actuating that second switch.

Disconnect the leads from that second switch and put an ohmmeter on the switch connectors, then squeeze the clutch fully. Make sure you see the change on the ohmmeter when the switch actuates. If you're seeing that, then we can move on to the next stage of diagnostics.

I don't have large thick grips. I tried the ohmmeter on both switches and saw the necessary changes on both. Keep in mind I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to motorcycle maintenance but I do put forth my best effort. :)


No problem - we'll get it fixed!

Now we know the clutch switch is OK, we need to check the next thing in the chain: the side stand switch.

Take your ohmmeter, connect one lead to the green/white wire at the clutch switch, and connect the other lead to ground (an unpainted metal piece on the bike).

With it hooked up like this, flip your side stand up and down. When the side stand is up, you should see continuity (green/white wire is connected to ground). When the side stand is down, you should not see continuity (green/white wire is not connected to ground).

If this is not what you see, then disconnect the side stand switch connector and do the same test there - again checking the green/white wire against ground.

Let me know what you see when trying this.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby Ol' Man » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:03 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
Ol' Man wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:Did you check the operation of the correct clutch switch? There are two - one that operates when the clutch lever is just slightly depressed - it disconnects the cruise control. The second switch operates when the clutch lever is fully depressed - that's the switch that allows you to start the bike when it is not in neutral.

Sometimes large, thick grips can prevent the lever from actuating that second switch.

Disconnect the leads from that second switch and put an ohmmeter on the switch connectors, then squeeze the clutch fully. Make sure you see the change on the ohmmeter when the switch actuates. If you're seeing that, then we can move on to the next stage of diagnostics.

I don't have large thick grips. I tried the ohmmeter on both switches and saw the necessary changes on both. Keep in mind I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to motorcycle maintenance but I do put forth my best effort. :)


No problem - we'll get it fixed!

Now we know the clutch switch is OK, we need to check the next thing in the chain: the side stand switch.

Take your ohmmeter, connect one lead to the green/white wire at the clutch switch, and connect the other lead to ground (an unpainted metal piece on the bike).

With it hooked up like this, flip your side stand up and down. When the side stand is up, you should see continuity (green/white wire is connected to ground). When the side stand is down, you should not see continuity (green/white wire is not connected to ground).

If this is not what you see, then disconnect the side stand switch connector and do the same test there - again checking the green/white wire against ground.

Let me know what you see when trying this.

Is it possible that I still have a sidestand switch on a trike conversion?
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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby robb » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:16 am

Swapping ECU's? Really? I would go find a different Honda dealer if they're making wild guesses like that. The starter circuit is not that complex, all they need to do is look at the diagram to figure out how to properly diagnose it, rather than making random guesses at swapping out unrelated items.


Same dealer that will only replace the Bank Angle sensor when it fails, mine was never replaced under warranty. I did not replace the ECU nor let them do service on bike. All switches work, can't find a thing that does not function as intended.
I'm thinking possibly a broken wire since all connections are secure.

Easy way to check side stand switch is to kick it down while engine is running. If it is working properly the engine will shut off.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:26 pm

Ol' Man wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:No problem - we'll get it fixed!

Now we know the clutch switch is OK, we need to check the next thing in the chain: the side stand switch.

Take your ohmmeter, connect one lead to the green/white wire at the clutch switch, and connect the other lead to ground (an unpainted metal piece on the bike).

With it hooked up like this, flip your side stand up and down. When the side stand is up, you should see continuity (green/white wire is connected to ground). When the side stand is down, you should not see continuity (green/white wire is not connected to ground).

If this is not what you see, then disconnect the side stand switch connector and do the same test there - again checking the green/white wire against ground.

Let me know what you see when trying this.

Is it possible that I still have a sidestand switch on a trike conversion?


Some conversion places leave the switch in place, for GL1500's most of them remove it. Some install a separate, manual switch - particularly on GL1800's, where you can't read error codes without putting the sidestand down.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby eric-nh » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:38 am

robb wrote:Don't feel bad, I know what the book says but mine 89 will only start in neutral.


Good afternoon, robb.

I also have an '89 and my issue is similar... won't start except in neutral, even with the clutch in and the sidestand up. It didn't used to be this way... I'm quite certain that I had no trouble in earlier years starting it in gear, but now it doesn't. Also the cruise control no longer disengages with the clutch. I didn't know until today that there are two separate clutch switches; either both of mine are bad or, more likely there is something common to both that is broken, like a ground wire. Haven't started troubleshooting it yet.

Rick in NH

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:55 pm

eric-nh wrote:
robb wrote:Don't feel bad, I know what the book says but mine 89 will only start in neutral.


Good afternoon, robb.

I also have an '89 and my issue is similar... won't start except in neutral, even with the clutch in and the sidestand up. It didn't used to be this way... I'm quite certain that I had no trouble in earlier years starting it in gear, but now it doesn't. Also the cruise control no longer disengages with the clutch. I didn't know until today that there are two separate clutch switches; either both of mine are bad or, more likely there is something common to both that is broken, like a ground wire. Haven't started troubleshooting it yet.

Rick in NH


If the switches have never been changed, then they have been through the same number of cycles - it's not outside the realm of possibility that both have failed. A few minutes with an ohmmeter will quickly tell you if one or both switches have failed.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby robb » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:32 pm

Switches test good and cruise will disengage with clutch. Used pin probes to test 3" from switches for broke wire or bad connection, but all test good. Done control wiring for 40 years and found some strange things but this one got me.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:08 am

robb wrote:Switches test good and cruise will disengage with clutch. Used pin probes to test 3" from switches for broke wire or bad connection, but all test good. Done control wiring for 40 years and found some strange things but this one got me.


OK, let's see if there is something wrong down the line, or if it is the diode pack.

Find the green/red wire going to the clutch starter switch (it is the one that clicks when the lever is fully depressed - the one that clicks when the lever just begins its travel is the cruise control disconnect switch).

Pull that green/red wire off, and use a jumper to connect it directly to ground.

With the bike on the center stand (important!), put the bike in first gear, put the side stand up, turn the bike on and hit the starter. A correctly operating bike should start, spinning the rear tire as it does so, because it thinks you are squeezing the clutch.

If it does not, then the problem is either in the diode pack, or in a connection between the diode pack and your clutch switch.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby robb » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:16 pm

WingAdmin wrote:If it does not, then the problem is either in the diode pack, or in a connection between the diode pack and your clutch switch.


That's where I'm at. Never checked a diode pack but can attest that all wiring appears to be good. Bike in first gear, the side stand up, turn the bike on and hit the starter and NO GO. Move to neutral and its a GO, side stand down and also a GO.
Will need to check diode pack, something to change or is it repairable.

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Re: STARTING WITH OUT BEING IN NEUTRAL

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:43 pm

robb wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:If it does not, then the problem is either in the diode pack, or in a connection between the diode pack and your clutch switch.


That's where I'm at. Never checked a diode pack but can attest that all wiring appears to be good. Bike in first gear, the side stand up, turn the bike on and hit the starter and NO GO. Move to neutral and its a GO, side stand down and also a GO.
Will need to check diode pack, something to change or is it repairable.


The diode pack is really a swap-out item, although I suppose you could probably build one yourself if you had a bunch of diodes sitting around.

First run through the test I mentioned above with the green/red wire, that will properly isolate the source of the problem rather than just guessing.




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