Grinding


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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charlesjantzen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 11:45 pm
Location: Houston, Texas
Motorcycle: 1994 GL1500 Apendcade

Grinding

Postby charlesjantzen » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:44 pm



I own a 1994 GL1500 that has a 104K miles on the engine. I am the third owner of the bike and have recently discovered that the previous owners were less that diligent in their maintenance of the machine. When I purchased the bike I had the carbs rebuilt, replaced the alternator, changed out the timing belt and did some general fluid changes.

Other than only getting 35 MPG the bike appeared to be running "normal". A few weeks back I was riding on the highway (approx. 65 MPH avg speed) and an intermittent grinding noise developed and which could be heard coming from the engine. The noise was occurring in both when the bike was in gear and when it was in neutral. I took the bike home and the grinding noise continued.

I recently placed the bike on the center stand and started it up. At first it sounded normal and then I rev'd the engine and the grinding noise returned. I noted that the noise does get louder and more pronounced when the engine is rev'd at a higher RPM. The noise appears to be coming from the front engine but to honest I could be dead wrong.

After doing searches on the board here I could not locate a member with similar issues. Does anyone out there have any ideas or theories which might be beneficial in solving my dilemma?

Thank you in advance for all of your assistance!

CJ



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MikeB
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: 1998 - GL1500 Aspencade.
2003 - GL1800A

Re: Grinding

Postby MikeB » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:51 pm

When you replaced the time belts, did you replace the idler bearings? That could be a source of the noise if they are failing.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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WingAdmin
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Posts: 17047
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Grinding

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:56 pm

Try this: find someplace that has a bit of a slope - a relatively steep driveway will do. With the bike pointing upward toward the top of the slope, see if the noise occurs. Then try the same thing with the bike pointing downward.

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MikeB
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: 1998 - GL1500 Aspencade.
2003 - GL1800A

Re: Grinding

Postby MikeB » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:06 pm

charlesjantzen wrote: The noise appears to be coming from the front engine but to honest I could be dead wrong.

Had you not said the above, I'd be looking at the final drive. The drive line needs occasional lubrication at the final drive. About every 16,000 miles it needs to be inspected and Moly Lube applied.

The origination point of noises can be hard to pinpoint until things are disassembled.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

charlesjantzen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 11:45 pm
Location: Houston, Texas
Motorcycle: 1994 GL1500 Apendcade

Re: Grinding

Postby charlesjantzen » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:27 pm

WingAdmin wrote:Try this: find someplace that has a bit of a slope - a relatively steep driveway will do. With the bike pointing upward toward the top of the slope, see if the noise occurs. Then try the same thing with the bike pointing downward.


Thanks for the suggestion, here is the outcome:

The bike was placed in 1st gear and this time the noise disappeared. I placed the front end up on an incline and did not hear any noises both while the bike was in 1st gear (clutch pulled in) and the bike in neutral.

The bike was placed at a downward angle and the noise began immediately in neutral. When I placed the bike in 1st the noise disappeared.

Once the bike was placed on level ground the noise was heard in neutral.

charlesjantzen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 11:45 pm
Location: Houston, Texas
Motorcycle: 1994 GL1500 Apendcade

Re: Grinding

Postby charlesjantzen » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:28 pm

MikeB wrote:When you replaced the time belts, did you replace the idler bearings? That could be a source of the noise if they are failing.


I had the dealer replace the timing belt and I don't recall if they replaced the idler bearings.

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WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17047
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Grinding

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:35 pm

charlesjantzen wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:Try this: find someplace that has a bit of a slope - a relatively steep driveway will do. With the bike pointing upward toward the top of the slope, see if the noise occurs. Then try the same thing with the bike pointing downward.


Thanks for the suggestion, here is the outcome:

The bike was placed in 1st gear and this time the noise disappeared. I placed the front end up on an incline and did not hear any noises both while the bike was in 1st gear (clutch pulled in) and the bike in neutral.

The bike was placed at a downward angle and the noise began immediately in neutral. When I placed the bike in 1st the noise disappeared.

Once the bike was placed on level ground the noise was heard in neutral.


I'm afraid this is bad news. What this normally indicates is a worn shift fork that is allowing shift dogs to partially engage when they should not be engaged - this is what makes the noise. This is a known problem with the transmissions of GL1500's until the problem was fixed in the 1997 model year. Fixing it is about $400 in parts and $2000 in labor - the entire engine has to be torn down. It's far cheaper to just find a used engine and replace the engine.

Worn shift fork
Worn shift fork

Worn shift fork next to new shift fork
Worn shift fork next to new shift fork


Normally it is the 4th-5th shift fork that wears, so the noise shows up in first through third gears, and it disappears in 4th or 5th.

I would get you to point the bike downhill again, and with the clutch held in, shift through all five gears and see which gears the noise occurs in.

BFowler
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:27 pm
Location: Sanford, NC
Motorcycle: 2013 Honda F6B Deluxe
2003 Suzuki SV1000K3

Re: Grinding

Postby BFowler » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:15 pm

Hello, guys. I'm Bill and I've been working with Charles on his GL, not that I know anything about them. I just got my first big bike, a Gold Wing F6B, late last year.

Ever heard an auto starter motor that didn't fully disengage after the engine catches? The starter motor gear doesn't quite lose contact with the ring gear (I think it's called)? You get an ugly, rapid, metal on metal clacking. This isn't our problem because the sound is intermittent and can often be made to happen while the engine is running (not while cranking), but that's the sound I'm hearing. And yes, this is a ploy to get around WingAdmin's terrifying diagnosis of the problem which, in spite of me thinking the sound is coming from the front left of the engine, could well be right since, as MikeB said, sounds can fool you big time.

Comments? Either way, thank you guys. You've been a big help to us getting our heads wrapped around this.

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WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17047
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Grinding

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:32 pm

BFowler wrote:Hello, guys. I'm Bill and I've been working with Charles on his GL, not that I know anything about them. I just got my first big bike, a Gold Wing F6B, late last year.

Ever heard an auto starter motor that didn't fully disengage after the engine catches? The starter motor gear doesn't quite lose contact with the ring gear (I think it's called)? You get an ugly, rapid, metal on metal clacking. This isn't our problem because the sound is intermittent and can often be made to happen while the engine is running (not while cranking), but that's the sound I'm hearing. And yes, this is a ploy to get around WingAdmin's terrifying diagnosis of the problem which, in spite of me thinking the sound is coming from the front left of the engine, could well be right since, as MikeB said, sounds can fool you big time.

Comments? Either way, thank you guys. You've been a big help to us getting our heads wrapped around this.


The Goldwing doesn't have that kind of starter (with a bendix). The starter is connected to a chain that rotates a starter clutch with one-way sprags. When the starter is turning faster than the engine, it cranks the engine - when the engine starts and turns faster than the starter, the sprags just let go. You can crank the starter when the engine is already running with no effect at all. So unfortunately, this isn't going to be the problem this time.

Worn Shifter Fork
Worn Shifter Fork


In the picture above, the two white arrows on the left and right are pointing to 4th and 5th gear. The white arrow in the middle is pointing at the shift fork.

The worn shift fork causes a gap, which the red arrow is pointing to. Because of this gap, the gears, instead of being held in place (neutral) so that the dogs are not engaging, can move slightly. When the bike is pointed downhill, gravity pulls these gears slightly, and the gap from the shift fork allows this to happen. They slide just enough so that the dogs rap against one another, causing that horrible sound.

BFowler
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:27 pm
Location: Sanford, NC
Motorcycle: 2013 Honda F6B Deluxe
2003 Suzuki SV1000K3

Re: Grinding

Postby BFowler » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:28 pm

WingAdmin, reading your responses is like getting a tutorial -- with easy to understand illustrations!

I'm happy to report that I think we understand what you're talking about. It makes sense to me and we'll take this as our operating premise. Thank you very much for your help.




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