carb heat exchanger


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g.pro
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carb heat exchanger

Postby g.pro » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:57 pm



I just rebuilt and synced my 1999 1500SE carbs and the bike runs flawlessly. BUT stupidly I didn't renew the hoses for the heat exchanger. So of course it's now leaking coolant. I verified the leak by clamping the two hoses at the front of the engine. My question is just how badly does a warm weather (San Antonio , Texas) Goldwing need that bit of extra heat on the carbs. I'm thinking of blocking both lines. Would appreciate any feedback. And as a pilot I understand carburetor ice so other than that.



millerized
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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby millerized » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:57 pm

I'm in, or was, in the same boat. I just went ahead and ordered the hoses...I think it was under $25 shipped for the pair. Figured Honda put them there for a reason, and I might as well put them back. While I've got the carbs off anyway. If they don't get here before I get the carbs back together though all bets are off.

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OldZX11Rider
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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby OldZX11Rider » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:18 am

Being down in Texas, and with it running just fine, I think I'd order the new hoses but not change them out until the next time I had reason to dig around in there.

If there's a compelling reason to do it asap, I'm sure someone on here will let you know, and why. :D
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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby millerized » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:49 pm

Just replaced the hoses today.
Daaaaaamn.....took me nearly 2hrs. One of them goes 180 degrees back towards the front of the motor under the right side manifold runners. It's a bit over a foot long, with several bends.
The other, towards the back but only about 8" long.
It's not that bad, except the clamps. I slid on screw clamps and used extensions, universals and the entire Old Testament to pray on. :shock:
If you can get away from changing them out....might save a few dead brain cells with the anger and frustration.
If you have to....take a day without anything else to do and go for it. Just put the beer on ice after you start...cause you'll be needing it when you're done.

Now I have to run the rest of the 2 off the waterpump....this is gonna take a full 6pk when I'm done!



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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby millerized » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:30 pm

The hoses coming from the waterpump are best changed by removing the right radiator fan. 2 bolts at the top, pull it out of the grommet on the bottom and yank it out. Both hoses and clamps are accessable. Easy, no. Accessible, yes.
I couldn't even get to the clamp on the easiest one from the front...the other, forget it. I had to pull the fan.

Just to the left of the motor mount, and towards the back just in front of the vertical hose...2 shiny new screw clamps.


Further out shot.

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby FM-USA » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:02 pm


Think one or two of these
help to get in those tight places?


.

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Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

millerized
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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby millerized » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:55 pm

I'll take 2...one for each hand.

FM-USA wrote:
Think one or two of these
help to get in those tight places?


.

grabbing-hand.JPG

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby FM-USA » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:01 pm

Can you imagine a mini robot hand 25% the size of ours going into tight places.
Each mini finger manipulated by your fingers, similar to a pantograph.
Have a camera mounted to remote view what your working on.
NEVER getting your hands dirty or mangled up.

Oh man, that be Effingham IL., Sugar Tit, SC.!
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

fnickel
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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby fnickel » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:58 pm

I'm interested also in whether the coolant to the carbs/manifolds can be bypassed with no major issues. I live in Canada, so I do ride in colder weather more often than you would. Would any other sensors need to be bypassed, and how would all this bypassing affect the driveability of the bike?

I am at almost the same point as you are with your situation, except you have more of the plastic covers off. I have puddling of coolant on the right bank of cylinders, more so in the winter time when in storage, and have pulled the rads off to check the hoses and clamps for any leakage. Right now I am suspecting some of the same small hoses and connections that you have been working on. Great picture, particularly the far off shot. I don't have the radio cover, and the side panels off to have quite the same access. How is your access to the carburetors at your stage of disassembly?

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby millerized » Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:23 pm

fnickel wrote:How is your access to the carburetors at your stage of disassembly?


They're on the bench, rebuilt them last night...so I'd have to say near perfect ;)

With the extra hoses, and the ease at which the radiator fans came out...I may just pull them again to ensure I get all the hoses hooked up right.

I have to wonder, and I rarely look at the book, but if it's not easier to get to a lot of hoses down 'there' with those fans out of the way? 2 bolts on top of the housing, pull up and out to get the plastic pin out of the grommet underneath. One 2 conductor electrical connector and you're done, reverse to install. I'll get some photo's of the area with the carbs in it later tonight.

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby millerized » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:52 pm

OK...getting those 2 hoses on were a snap! Pull the right side fan like I mentioned above, and you can use both hands to align and seat them.
I used screw clamps, and could get a socket and extension in to tighten them. The fan on the other side was nice to have out, but really not needed. I left the carbs unseated in the rubbers that hold them to the manifold for extra vertical space. Might not be needed, but I figure since they weren't in yet....



Even the big hose that goes to the bottom of the airbox...pop, right into place with one hand! Lots of room from the bottom.
Thumb on the hose, index finger is directly under the area where it needs to go. Find it, slide it into position and push up. Done!




I'm almost done with carbs! Not bad for a first timer :P

warlock1954
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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby warlock1954 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:42 am

g.pro wrote:I just rebuilt and synced my 1999 1500SE carbs and the bike runs flawlessly. BUT stupidly I didn't renew the hoses for the heat exchanger. So of course it's now leaking coolant. I verified the leak by clamping the two hoses at the front of the engine. My question is just how badly does a warm weather (San Antonio , Texas) Goldwing need that bit of extra heat on the carbs. I'm thinking of blocking both lines. Would appreciate any feedback. And as a pilot I understand carburetor ice so other than that.

I bypassed mine about 6 to 8 months ago. I live in south Mississippi. Don't need them in the south. If so all motorcycles with carbs would have it. Never had any problems with my Valkyrie and they had 6 carbs.
David

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:48 pm

The heated carbs help with emissions and smooth running during initial warm-up. After the engine is warm, the coolant through the carbs is shut off anyway. So if they are cut off/disconnected, you might have a bit rough running during warm-ups at cooler temperatures, and you'll spew a bit more emissions into the air, but the bike will run just fine otherwise.

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby FM-USA » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:37 pm

ALSO:
Don't forget about running upper altitudes where it is much cooler.
What happens on those really cool days?

JUST mentioning.
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby millerized » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:52 pm

WingAdmin wrote:The heated carbs help with emissions and smooth running during initial warm-up. After the engine is warm, the coolant through the carbs is shut off anyway. So if they are cut off/disconnected, you might have a bit rough running during warm-ups at cooler temperatures, and you'll spew a bit more emissions into the air, but the bike will run just fine otherwise.

I found it interesting they had the carb heater on it, but put a big rubber heat 'shield' across the top of the manifold and under the carb :lol:
While it's been a very long time since I've iced up a carb, I know it does happen...but rare would be the case in a location surrounded by a half-sized car motor ;)
I was tempted to cut them off...but they were put on for a reason, and I'm not 20yrs into this wing like I am the Concours and previous bikes. Give me a few years and I'll have it cooking my lunch and pre-heating dinner.

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby FM-USA » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:06 pm

millerized wrote: ... I was tempted to cut them off...but they were put on for a reason, and I'm not 20yrs into this wing like I am the Concours and previous bikes. Give me a few years and I'll have it cooking my lunch and pre-heating dinner.

Why not leave them shrouds on. Make pull out, stainless steel trays for your warming ovens.
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby millerized » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:56 pm

FM-USA wrote:Why not leave them shrouds on. Make pull out, stainless steel trays for your warming ovens.


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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby FM-USA » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:22 pm

MMMmmmmm, Co2 Burgers with a smattering of carbon and grilled on a platen of platinum. :lol:
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

warlock1954
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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby warlock1954 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:58 am

WingAdmin wrote:The heated carbs help with emissions and smooth running during initial warm-up. After the engine is warm, the coolant through the carbs is shut off anyway. So if they are cut off/disconnected, you might have a bit rough running during warm-ups at cooler temperatures, and you'll spew a bit more emissions into the air, but the bike will run just fine otherwise.

The only problem I ran into after removing the smog controls and coolant running thru the carbs was a bit of surging. Wouldn't do it all the time. I put the syn gauges on after removing all the stuff and it was dead on. Traced the problem down to the sensor on the intake manifold. replaced it and all purring like a kitten.
David

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby FM-USA » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:37 am

warlock1954 wrote:Traced the problem down to the sensor on the intake manifold. replaced it and all purring like a kitten.
David

Which sensor?
If I remember, there are 3?
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby fnickel » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:23 pm

Hey warlock1954 and WingAdmin,
Thanks for your opinion that removal/blocking/bypassing of the coolant lines to the carb/manifolds won't have a huge effect. Thank goodness there are not error codes and idiot lights on the 1500 to tell you that something has been changed or bypassed on the emissions system or other stuff. With the increasing likelihood of leaks in the cooling system of an older Wing (which I am dealing with now), I think it makes sense to bypass or block these finicky little lines, clamps and O-rings if they don't really accomplish much at all. I have ridden older bikes with completely exposed carbs in lower than freezing conditions, and never had a problem with carbs icing up or poor running as a result of it. The 1500 has very protected carbs from the outside/ambient air, so I don't see it being a big issue. Plus, I'm not planning on riding it in the coldest part of a Canadian winter anyway. Now the question; which lines need to be blocked or bypassed to keep coolant away from all unnecessary areas such as the carbs/manifolds, and what is the best way to do it?

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby warlock1954 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:02 pm

FM-USA wrote:
warlock1954 wrote:Traced the problem down to the sensor on the intake manifold. replaced it and all purring like a kitten.
David

Which sensor?
If I remember, there are 3?

The one on the right input manifold as sitting on the bike or on the throttle side. It can be removed once you remove the radiator fan. It is the one for the ECM on some call ICM. It sends a signal to advance the timing when it is cold and goes back to normal once warm up. If it is acting up it can cause the surging issue. If you replace it remember to order the washer also.

David

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby FM-USA » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:45 am

# 24 ?
What is special about the washer?
Is it a one time only crush washer?

OEM Price about $45.00

Is this an ON / OFF switch or a resistance?
If resistance, what is it's Ohms? (as a temporary bypass)

"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

warlock1954
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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby warlock1954 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:11 am

FM-USA wrote:# 24 ?
What is special about the washer?
Is it a one time only crush washer?

OEM Price about $45.00

Is this an ON / OFF switch or a resistance?
If resistance, what is it's Ohms? (as a temporary bypass)

be671.png

I think it measures in millivolts or milliamps (sp) The washer is a metal one. I reused mine, but would have been in a bind if it didn't seat. Would have been nice if it was a on/off type sensor. I think mine would sometimes work and sometimes not. It did act right just before the fans would kick in. Since replacing it all is well. No surging. They had the same issue on the Honda Valkyries. There was a mod that was being used on the valkyrie board to fool it to advance the timing. Found the link
http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/ect-mod.htm
David

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Re: carb heat exchanger

Postby FM-USA » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:44 am

DAVE - ECT timing mod.

Have you or know anyone who did this Mod?
If so, what was the power/torque increase?
Fuel mileage change?
I haul heavy trailer now and then, sure could use a little more passing power on rare moments.

THANKS!!!+!


"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.


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