More tax money gone , grrrr


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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Uncle Fester
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More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Uncle Fester » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:59 pm



Well, yesterday while out riding, I stopped to check a address on my cell phone, shut off the bike for a min and when I went to restart it, not even a "click click" , well crap, dead battery, right ? So I called GWRRA Roadside Assistance to arrange a jump start. While waiting, after about 30 min or so, just for grins I tried to start it again, fired right up, so I call GWRRA and canceled the assist call and headed down the road. Awhile later I stopped to fuel up, and again, no start. . . . I figured the battery was toast, looked and it was low on H2o. I called GWRRA, again, and set up a tow, bought some distilled H2o and topped off the battery. About .5-.75 cup of H2o, while waiting for the tow, tried it again, after about 30 mins, and it fired again ! I decided I did not trust it to get me home and waited for the tow anyway.
I called my repair shop and arraigned a new battery for this morning. Went and got the new battery, bike fired right off, so went home, got the wife and did some running around she wanted to do. Stopped at cyclegear here in Oklahoma City, guess what ? Would not start again ! I asked inside if they had a "hot box" to jump it with, said no problems. We jumpped it, still no fire, so they got a battery tester out, battery showed 13.4v, 13.2 when I hit the starter button ( still no fire).
After about 30 mins wait, tried it again and vroom ! Took it to my mechanic as he wanted to test the charging system. When I got to the shop, I left it idling,removed the side panel and he tested voltage at idle ( 14.2 ) and at 2000rpm ( 14.3-4 ) with a DVM . So we are thinking the starter is getting weak, gets "heat soaked" while riding and says screw you until it cools off !
So now I get to add a starter rebuild to the list of stuff I am doing or having done to my bike with our tax refund. . . . . YAY !
So, this years list now includes :
1) new battery
2) timing belts
3) new tires (both)
4) shifter seal
5) Corbin seat
6) pass arm rests
7) LED bulbs for fact driving/cornering lights
8) 4 Polk DB501 speakers
9) U-joint & boot
10) IS-77 or marine round head unit

As you can tell, some is needed (preventitive) and some is wanted, now I know why my mechanic put me on his Christmas Card list ! LOL


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Bluewaterhooker0
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Bluewaterhooker0 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:10 pm

Uncle Fester wrote:
We jumpped it, still no fire, so they got a battery tester out, battery showed 13.4v, 13.2 when I hit the starter button ( still no fire).


I wouldn't jump so fast on that starter rebuild. The voltage readings you state are indicative of a battery under NO load. Meaning, the starter is not even trying to turn. I have not experienced problems with my starter system, so have no first hand experience with them, but I'm pretty good with electric, and your issue sounds like it's further up the line. From my readings on this and other forums, I'd look at the starter switch on the handlebar first, followed by the start relays. I believe the "A" relay is prone to problems more so than the "B" relay. But all of that is testable. I don't think the 'juice' is getting to the starter, and I doubt the 30 minute delay has anything to do with it. Probably just coincidence, and how long it takes you to try it again.
I'm surprised the mechanic would jump to a starter rebuild, based on your description of the very limited tests that have been run so far. Search out starting problems, and I'm sure you'll find some good testing methods to narrow down the issue. For beginners, you could work that start button on the handlebar while spraying with a good cleaner, and see if that reduces or eliminates your problem. It seems to be the #1 issue when having such problems.

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Uncle Fester
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Uncle Fester » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:09 pm

Happened a total of three times, twice Friday once today. Today I tried to start it with no luck, then tried with Hot Box, then tested voltage, then tried at about 15mins, no luck ( forgot to state that before ) and again at ABOUT 30 mins, fire then. Was basically same both times Friday, minus Hot Box and voltage test.
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Uncle Fester
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Uncle Fester » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:58 pm

Oh, when will not start, you can still hear Click of the relay/s
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby ct1500 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:06 pm

Uncle Fester wrote:Oh, when will not start, you can still hear Click of the relay/s


Means nothing, you are hearing the click of the headlight relay disengaging when pushing starter button. Blu water has some good advice, follow it. Assume nothing take voltage readings at start components. Until components are tested and checked you know nothing. ;)
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Charlie1Horse » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:54 pm

Carry a voltmeter with you and the next time this happens, check for voltage at the starter solenoid (+ & - sides). If there is power on both sides (power out) check at the starter connection. This should narrow it down to help find the problem.
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Uncle Fester
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Uncle Fester » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:10 pm

Ok, my DVM is dead right now , so no voltage readings tonight, BUT . . . .

The wife and I took a dinner ride that was about 50 miles each way.

When we came home, I shut the bike off and let it sit about 3-5 min, trued to start it with no luck. I took the battery side panels off and put my finger on the relay/solenoid right next to the battery, tried to start the bike and could feel it clickity click. Felt the second relay/solenoid down ynder the oil fill cap (pic below) and tried again, no click and no start.
Is this actually relay 2 or B ? Am I right that it is supposed to click also when trying to start the bike ?
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Wilcoy02 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:23 pm

My guess is your coils are on their way out.
If cracked they will start and then after it gets hot it expands and will not start the bike.

Post your results so some one else may learn from your problem.

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Bluewaterhooker0
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Bluewaterhooker0 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:23 am

Uncle Fester wrote:Ok, my DVM is dead right now , so no voltage readings tonight, BUT . . . .

The wife and I took a dinner ride that was about 50 miles each way.

When we came home, I shut the bike off and let it sit about 3-5 min, trued to start it with no luck. I took the battery side panels off and put my finger on the relay/solenoid right next to the battery, tried to start the bike and could feel it clickity click. Felt the second relay/solenoid down ynder the oil fill cap (pic below) and tried again, no click and no start.
Is this actually relay 2 or B ? Am I right that it is supposed to click also when trying to start the bike ?


It's late and I've got to hit the sack, but I believe the relay you photographed, and is located to the right of the battery, is RELAY A. If that relay sticks closed, it will cause a continuous starter motor run condition. So, I'm pretty sure it is the primary relay feeding power to the starter. If it doesn't click, no start. Even if it did click, it still might not start if the contacts are burned/deteriorated enough. But, you probably should determine if the relay is receiving a signal to close (click), before deep 6-ing it. Attached are the Service manual pages regarding troubleshooting that system. I don't have time to look at it now. But, take a look, and see if you can test the whole system for all signals (voltage) at their proper places.

I just recently bought one of these to have as a spare, just in case of emergencies such as you are having right now. May not be the best quality, but certainly would get me home, or save a trip. And, the price was right. I saw that someone else on the forum had used one for just that purpose.
It is RELAY A.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290691364464?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

CORRECTION: It appears from the service manual diagram that the relay you referenced is RELAY B. But, I believe the rest of my info is correct, assuming you have an SE or Aspencade model. The Interstate has no reverse, and therefore no A / B relays, just a single start relay.
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby ct1500 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:47 pm

Next time it wont start, with button pushed in jiggle the reverse lever a little bit and see if that will allow starter to turn.

Check that when relay A clicks and no start that both big terminals of relay have voltage.

Your B relay (the one down lower) is likely not working correctly as it should click closed same time A does. Next time it will not start check for voltage on small yellow/red wire to it with button pushed. If voltage present there then you need to check for continuity to engine ground on the green/red wire (this is done without pushing button).

No voltage at the yellow/red means a problem with 5A fused wire from relay A. No continuity to ground means a problem most likely at reverse switch or at diodes.
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Uncle Fester » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:53 pm

Okay, some update for you guys. . .

Took about a 200 mile ride yesterday to get my new seat, get some lunch and just enjoy time with the wife.
Made a few stops, most about 30 min or longer, but one stop was about 5 min. At that stop the bike would not start again, so I quickly grabbed my test light and while NOT able to reach the upper relay "main" wires, it was clicking every time I hit the button, so I tested at the lower relay ( see pic above ) and I was getting power to the wire with the "blue cover", but not the wire with the "red cover" , so if I am correct, my lower ( B ? ) relay is bad, correct ?

Once I get a reply or two here in the positive, I will order up a replacement. Any suggestions on where to get one at a decent price ?
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby robb » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:00 pm

I also think it could be coils. In 45 years of biking the only problem that required a wait time to start was bad coil.
Did you try to turn the bike over with kill switch in off position. Biggest load for starter is reverse, if it works I would not touch it.

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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby robb » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:46 am

There may be one more issue, bank angle sensor. Mine has never been replaced and after riding on extremely rough surfaces like dirt road the bike has stuttered and once shut off may need 15 minutes for fluid to settle. Yamaha said fluid inside can foam from vibration and become unstable. Once settled it will operate as desired.

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Uncle Fester
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Uncle Fester » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:05 am

has MOSTLY happened after highway or city street riding, I have never had this bike on a dirt road, yet. . . .
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby robb » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:38 pm

Mine has only happened on a dirt road but most has happened under normal travel. There is a way to bypass and test if all else fails.

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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:14 pm

robb wrote:There may be one more issue, bank angle sensor. Mine has never been replaced and after riding on extremely rough surfaces like dirt road the bike has stuttered and once shut off may need 15 minutes for fluid to settle. Yamaha said fluid inside can foam from vibration and become unstable. Once settled it will operate as desired.


The fluid is only used as a damper. There is a pendulum in there, and if the pendulum swings too far, it makes contact with a terminal and shuts the bike down. The fluid keeps the pendulum moving slowly, so it doesn't respond to every bump on the road, the bike has to actually lean over for a second or two for it to actuate.

So as long as the bike is upright for 5-10 seconds, that pendulum should be still and the bike should start. Incidentally if it HAS triggered, you have to shut the ignition completely off and back on to reset it.

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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:29 pm

Uncle Fester wrote:Okay, some update for you guys. . .

Took about a 200 mile ride yesterday to get my new seat, get some lunch and just enjoy time with the wife.
Made a few stops, most about 30 min or longer, but one stop was about 5 min. At that stop the bike would not start again, so I quickly grabbed my test light and while NOT able to reach the upper relay "main" wires, it was clicking every time I hit the button, so I tested at the lower relay ( see pic above ) and I was getting power to the wire with the "blue cover", but not the wire with the "red cover" , so if I am correct, my lower ( B ? ) relay is bad, correct ?

Once I get a reply or two here in the positive, I will order up a replacement. Any suggestions on where to get one at a decent price ?


The blue cover wire is connected directly to the output of starter relay A, so if it has power when you push the starter button, then that is telling you that starter relay A is working.

The red wire is the output of starter relay B. When you press the starter button, can you hear relay B clicking?

If not, there is a 5 amp in-line fuse (inline fuse B) in between relay A and the coil of relay B. If it blows, relay A will click, but relay B will not. Check the fuse, and replace it if bad - in fact, if you have intermittent starting issues, replace it period. It might have a small crack in the conductor that only sometimes fails.

Inline Fuses
Inline Fuses

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Uncle Fester
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Re: More tax money gone , grrrr

Postby Uncle Fester » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:42 pm

I will check and replace the fuse you are talking about once I get the bike back from getting her new tires, timing belts, and shifter shaft seal, and no relay B does not click, but once it does, the bike starts right up, so sounds like either relay B, the fuse you spoke of, or both. . . . YAY Money saved ! I love this site !


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