Flash rate and LED's...the easy way


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millerized
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Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:42 pm



Rather than the PITA load blocks needed at each corner, how about a single plug and play relay? Just unplug the original, stick this in its place and strap it in.
Takes care of the fast blink you normally get if you don't put a load resistor at each corner.
I'm a flippin cheap genius :lol: ...about $6 worth of parts and a few minutes time. What are the 'other' ones costing folks?
Yeah.... :?



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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby MikeB » Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:15 am

Does the automatic cancel still work with this set up?
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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:07 am

MikeB wrote:Does the automatic cancel still work with this set up?


I wouldn't see why not. The automatic cancel is a mechanical system, right?
I've got the rear end off the bike waiting on more parts, but I'll see if I can't fool it.
Let you know, though.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby MikeB » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:17 pm

I think it is electro/mechanical. It senses a combination of speed and time I believe.
I have an Electrical connection LED turn signal flasher relay for my GL1800 and I asked them about a unit for my GL1500. The said they had to work on it. It wasn't as simple as just replacing the flasher unless I didn't care about the auto canceler. Supposedly they were going to get back to me on it. That was a year ago. Maybe what you have is the answer.
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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:14 pm

MikeB wrote:I think it is electro/mechanical. It senses a combination of speed and time I believe.
I have an Electrical connection LED turn signal flasher relay for my GL1800 and I asked them about a unit for my GL1500. The said they had to work on it. It wasn't as simple as just replacing the flasher unless I didn't care about the auto canceler. Supposedly they were going to get back to me on it. That was a year ago. Maybe what you have is the answer.


I can't believe smarter minds than mine haven't worked on this before, but....
Again, it'll be a week or more for me. Outside of the self-cancellation feature, it corrects the previous flash issue I had. We'll find out shortly.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby Uncle Fester » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:56 pm

:?: waiting to see what happens here. . . .
Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Our stress about it happens when the two aren't the same. Be true to yourself and to hell with what everyone else thinks!

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:44 pm

First off...you don't need four load resistors, just two - one for each side. When I installed mine, I used two high-power resistors, and strapped them to the frame, just under the trunk, to work as heatsinks.

Secondly, as others have mentioned, you will lose your turn signal auto-cancel functionality. It is not mechanical at all, it is 100% electronic, and depends on the current flowing in the turn signals in order to function correctly. If you run LEDs with an electronic flasher, like you are proposing, there is not enough current being drawn for the turn signal cancel module to detect that the turn signal is actually actuated, and it will simply not function.

This is something that has been tried over and over by many people (myself included), and the only solution that works is to add load-balancing resistors, to cause enough current to be drawn to trigger the turn cancellation module.

The module itself is potted, so it can't be disassembled and modified, unfortunately.

By all means keep your electronic flasher - and the leads you installed will allow you to move it to a more serviceable location underneath the seat, in front of the trunk (instead of under it). You might want to do the same thing with the hazard flasher relay. However, if you want your auto-cancel to work, you'll need to also install load resistors.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:56 pm

My electronic flasher has been modified internally with a larger resistor.
THAT is the part I'm Jonesing to try out.
I'm not wanting to toss out the whole specs yet, but if it works.... ;)

I originally put one resistor on each side of the bike...still blinks faster than stock. That's what led me to work on a known configuration to take care of the flash rate, but also the rest of the problems. It should work...but that's the general statement of many broken bones, homes and lost fortunes across time.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:31 pm

millerized wrote:My electronic flasher has been modified internally with a larger resistor.
THAT is the part I'm Jonesing to try out.
I'm not wanting to toss out the whole specs yet, but if it works.... ;)

I originally put one resistor on each side of the bike...still blinks faster than stock. That's what led me to work on a known configuration to take care of the flash rate, but also the rest of the problems. It should work...but that's the general statement of many broken bones, homes and lost fortunes across time.


An internal flasher with a resistor can't work - in order to make it work, you need to draw MORE current. The flasher is in series with the lights, so having an extra resistor in there would make it draw LESS current.

If it was still flashing too quickly with one resistor on each side, then the resistor had too high resistance.

You can buy lots of expensive "load balancing devices" and so on, but when it comes down to it, all it is, is a high power resistor.

I used two of these 3.3 ohm, 100 watt resistors: http://www.amazon.com/100watt-Resistanc ... ingdocs-20
Image

One for the left turn signal, one for the right. They are connected in parallel with the turn signal bulbs (one lead is connected to the +12V side of the turn signal bulb, the other lead is connected to ground).

These things get HOT. They are sinking a fair amount of current. They need to be strapped to a frame member on the bike, away from the plastic, in order to sink away some of the heat. I used two stainless worm screw clamps on each one to strap them to the frame underneath the seat, next to the side bags, one on each side. They work very well there.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:31 pm

Right now everything works except being able to test for the self cancelling feature.
We'll see about the rest of it shortly.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby DarthJ » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:25 pm

WingAdmin wrote:By all means keep your electronic flasher - and the leads you installed will allow you to move it to a more serviceable location underneath the seat, in front of the trunk (instead of under it). You might want to do the same thing with the hazard flasher relay. However, if you want your auto-cancel to work, you'll need to also install load resistors.


I think I'll try his setup on my 1500, my auto cancel keeps pissing me off anyway, it keeps turning the flashers off way too soon and I'm still used to pressing to cancel anyway.
If my gal ain't happy, I ain't happy. Thank God she loves bikes.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:55 pm

This is how I used to fix them. You measure your resistance across the circuit, bulbs and all, and put in a resistor that 'fit' the value in place of that silver wire. A rheostat can be installed in that space to fine tune things and make it adjustable. Again, that's how it used to be done. Now, with electronic flashers that don't need to sense a load to have a set flash rate, things can be modified even more with the addition of other items within the package.
We'll see what happens with the self canceller.
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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:37 am

As I hoped, it works just fine.
10 normally timed flashes on the straight road at 45mph...it shuts off. Stoplight or sign...flashes all day long (or at least as long as I was stopped...which wasn't long). Turn left and turn right...few flashes after the turn and it's off. I thought the turning part might just have been the 'time/distance thingy' going off...it wasn't. Last stop and turn I took, I didn't turn on the turn signal until I was at a complete stop. It shut off as soon as I righted the bike out of the turn.
I'm also going to add extra load to it (the original big resistors) to see how it acts. They're on spade connectors and will be an easy test. Just in case someone doesn't want to remove those resistors from their bike.
If we need video, we'll do video, but as I expected...it works fine.
I'll continue testing it, but right now I'm pretty pleased with myself.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby MikeB » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:27 am

Excellent. Did you make any modifications to the solid state flasher, like you wrote about in a previous post, or did you use one right out of the package?
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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:03 pm

MikeB wrote:Excellent. Did you make any modifications to the solid state flasher, like you wrote about in a previous post, or did you use one right out of the package?

Not after my first attempt. Took my resistor out to make sure it wasn't going to cause me a problem after it worked the first time (flash rate wise). After finding out it didn't really make any difference, I kept it out and just put the relay back how it was originally from Amazon. A $5.38 (now $6.61 for the relay) fix, outside of building a new wiring 'harness' for it.
One thing I have not checked (because I have a bad switch) is the 4 ways. I do not know if the 4-ways are affected at all, flash rate or otherwise. The switch lost it's spring (actual spring fell out, not hardened grease) and is a real biiiitch to pull back out after activated. Once I replace that spring, or get brave enough to mess with that switch, I'll check that out.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BLZ9XQK is the relay, crimp on 3 female connectors on one side of the wires to slide over the relay pins, and a 3 pin OEM style plug to fit into the bike on the other end. Match up the wires B-L-E to B-L-E and try it out.

I'll end this by saying that it works on my bike as it is. 99 GL1500SE. No promises it works on any one else's bike. I don't know of anything the PO might have installed before me. But before the relay it flashed way too fast until I added the resistors. Even then, it flashed a little faster than stock. Since the addition of the relay and removal of the resistors, it works fine to include the auto cancellation of the turn signals.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby MikeB » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:27 pm

Thanks very much. That is most helpful.
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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:32 pm

I thought I might be having a problem with the left auto cancel...turns out there may be a problem with the auto cancel doodad in the front end. I don't turn as sharp with the left turns as I do the right, but the right side cancels immediately upon bring the bike up out of the turn. The left side isn't as prompt, but then again, neither are my turns. So I'm thinking it's not returning to center/cancel position as fast as the right turns, or is stuck a little bit getting back to off. BUT...it does still work.

All in all, it works fine in everything to include the 4ways flash rate (which are still stuck on right now :lol: ...I knew I should have waited until I was home, and not on the way TO work. :?
More 'testing' over the riding season, but right now I'm happy with it.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby Bluewaterhooker0 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:39 pm

millerized,

[ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BLZ ... ingdocs-20 is the relay, crimp on 3 female connectors on one side of the wires to slide over the relay pins, and a 3 pin OEM style plug to fit into the bike on the other end. Match up the wires B-L-E to B-L-E and try it out. ]

I'm old, and maybe a little slow, but let me get this straight.
You are using the above stated relay only, with no additional resistors, plugged directly into the connector that the bike used for the OEM relay, and 1.) fixing the fast flash blinker rate problem, while 2.) maintaining auto turn signal timed terminatioin, as well as 3.) maintaining turn signal cancellation after a turn is completed ?
Have I got that right ?
Can you show or specify that white 3 pin OEM plug in a photo, or an internet link for the part ?

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby millerized » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:14 am

Bluewaterhooker0 wrote:millerized,

[ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BLZ ... ingdocs-20 is the relay, crimp on 3 female connectors on one side of the wires to slide over the relay pins, and a 3 pin OEM style plug to fit into the bike on the other end. Match up the wires B-L-E to B-L-E and try it out. ]

I'm old, and maybe a little slow, but let me get this straight.
You are using the above stated relay only, with no additional resistors, plugged directly into the connector that the bike used for the OEM relay, and 1.) fixing the fast flash blinker rate problem, while 2.) maintaining auto turn signal timed terminatioin, as well as 3.) maintaining turn signal cancellation after a turn is completed ?
Have I got that right ?
Can you show or specify that white 3 pin OEM plug in a photo, or an internet link for the part ?

Yes, on my bike the electronic made for LED relay fixed the hyperflash issue without other items in the system. No large resistors, no magic or other items installed. The timed auto cancel is still working. The sensor on the front end still works.
http://cyclemax.com/inc/sdetail/3_wire_ ... /129/36031 for the 3 pin connectors. Relay is male, connector on the bike is female. Make it female 3 pin connector to 3 female spade lugs.

I have a miss in the engine, so we'll be pulling a few things off the bike this weekend. I'll document the process a little bit better, since I have a camera that actually does close-up stuff now. Part of the day Saturday, and all day Sunday I'll be working on the bike and posting. If there are any changes, I will post them. Other than correcting my rough running, I hope nothing else changes.

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Re: Flash rate and LED's...the easy way

Postby Bluewaterhooker0 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:57 pm

Thanks for the info. I've bookmarked this topic for future reference, and will be looking for future posts.




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