94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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evolbob
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade
1994 GL1500 Aspencade

94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby evolbob » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:04 am



I recently acquired a garage kept Aspy 1500 that the owner said "...I'm having some fuel issues...and don't want to run down whether its a carburetor or fuel filter or bank angle sensor". I was going to pull the carbs and rebuild if necessary but decided to see if the carbs were getting any fuel. I replaced the battery and disconnected the fuel line coming from the fuel pump and hit the start switch. No fuel output. I also performed the fuel pump operation test and got zero output of fuel as well. I unscrewed the gas cap and listened for the pump to run when switch is first turned on and it doesn't. I also checked fuse B and 11, both are good. What am I missing here as far as testing? How do I know if I have a faulty ECM?



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virgilmobile
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:47 am

First check if there is spark on any spark plug.
No spark,no fuel.
No spark= kill switch,BAS sensor,bad relay,etc.
Remove the seat.
Locate the wire that feeds the pump.Probe that wire and turn on the key,there should be 12 volts for 1 second and as the bike is cranking.
If the volts are normal,you have a dead pump or bad ground to it.
Use both terminals at the fuel tank.Power and ground wires.Do not use your meter attached to the frame.(Possible bad ground) and don't confuse it with the low fuel sensor wire.
If the volts are very low or none,you can test for the same volts at the ECM.The pump is driven directly from it.
If the ECM is at fault,I do suggest replacing both the pump and ECM even if you can get the pump to run by applying power directly to it.
If your ECM is bad..I believe the ECM modules do not just quit,I believe the pump was drawing excessive power and damaged the ECM.

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ct1500
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby ct1500 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:01 pm

The fuel pump operates with engine cranking over or running only. Power wire for pump goes to front or forward most insulated terminal of cover plate and is the black/blue stripe one.
This is what I do
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virgilmobile
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:10 pm

ct1500 wrote:The fuel pump operates with engine cranking over or running only. Power wire for pump goes to front or forward most insulated terminal of cover plate and is the black/blue stripe one.


Unless I deduce this wrong,the pump should cycle "for a few seconds" when the key is first turned on.The manual shows what to test should the pump not cycle.

evolbob
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1994 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby evolbob » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:16 pm

Thanks for the reply virgilmobile. I checked for spark on the right side of bike, none had any spark. I'm going to do the ECM system inspection per the service manual when I get another set of leads for my multimeter. FYI - When I depress the cruise control the light on dash illuminates with key turned on. That should eliminate kill switch correct?

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ct1500
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby ct1500 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:52 pm

Only the '88-89 years had the fuel pump relay which cycles the pump on for a second with key, all others during cranking or running only.
Last edited by ct1500 on Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

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virgilmobile
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump ort ECM or something else?

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:16 pm

Without searching the schematic,I'm not certain about the cruise light/kill switch effect.
Try it.Turn on the key,push the cruise switch,operate the kill switch..Does the light go off?

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virgilmobile
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:20 pm

ct1500 wrote:Only the '88-89 years had the fuel pump relay which cycles on for a second with key, all others during cranking or running only.


My 88 does cycle the pump,yes.
I don't have a later model to try.
I'm going by the 94 service manual infers that the pump "should" cycle when the key is first turned on by the troubleshooting section.

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ct1500
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby ct1500 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:39 pm

Just another example of the numerous inaccuracies of Honda service publications.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

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virgilmobile
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84 GL 1200 I

Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:49 pm

Not Honda :shock: :o What else??? :roll: :lol: :lol:numerous you say.Its gotta be true,I read it on the internet.

evolbob
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby evolbob » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:25 pm

Yes, the cruise on light does go out when I turn the kill switch. In regards to the pump running that was what I took away from the manual as well that it will run a second or 2 after ignition is turned on. Irregardless, it doesn't run at all when I hit the starter. I pulled the outlet tube and stuck it in a bottle. Not a drop!

evolbob
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade
1994 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby evolbob » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:00 pm

I finished the ECM module test and it passed. The manual says that if all test pass then its a faulty ECM. Ugh, I hope that's the case. I haven't priced one yet but it sounds expensive. Will replace pump too with the Napa replacement pump referred to on this forum.

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virgilmobile
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84 GL 1200 I

Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:16 pm

The ECM test.Exactly what was checked?
If it passed,why is it determined bad?
Hopefully the output that feeds the fuel pump was part of the test.
Did it have volts feeding the pump when cranking?

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Bluewaterhooker0
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby Bluewaterhooker0 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:16 am

Another similar situation:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23939&hilit=ecm+fuel+pump+test

Have you run 12V direct to the pump to verify operation ?
Have you vacuum checked the fuel petcock ?
Have you bypassed the petcock to check for running or fuel ?

evolbob
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1994 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby evolbob » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:22 pm

The attached photos show the ECM test I referred to. I just applied 12 V directly to pump and it does nothing.



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ct1500
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby ct1500 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:22 pm

evolbob wrote:The attached photos show the ECM test I referred to. I just applied 12 V directly to pump and it does nothing.


Have you verified the ground wire on pump cover is attached and good? You have not yet checked the black/blue stripe fuel pump wire for voltage with engine cranking, disconnect it and test which should have been done first. If no voltage there then test again at ECM output terminal.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

evolbob
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:09 am
Location: Brunswick, GA
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade
1994 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby evolbob » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:51 pm

Yes, I have measured at pump while using starter, no voltage. How do I measure at the ECM, on the wiring harness? Which points do I measure? I did the fuel pump test where I shorted the BLK/WHT and BLK/BLU wire connector terminals with no positive results.

evolbob
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1994 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby evolbob » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:47 pm

OK, didnt realize I had additional troubleshooting procedures in the back if this manual. I just got this 1500, been riding a 1200 for last 8 years so sorry about my ignorance. Doing the isolation procedure 1 it failed test 6 which directed me to test D which results say to service fuel pump. So, I guess I will replace fuel pump first then the ECM if needed


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ct1500
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby ct1500 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:12 pm

Yes with connector plugged in check for voltage on blk/blu wire.

Symptom no fuel pump voltage and no spark. If sure of your results on the pinpoint test then you check for proper rotor turning on crank for pulse generators. Then go to pinpoint tests of ECM in fuel section. If those OK and assuming something not done radically to machine previously then replace ECM per the manual $$. It might be worth a shot to try the much cheaper PG's first even though tested good, your call, not knowing the history or general condition of this machine i.e. what brought it to this situation.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

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ct1500
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby ct1500 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:52 pm

evolbob wrote:OK, didnt realize I had additional troubleshooting procedures in the back if this manual. I just got this 1500, been riding a 1200 for last 8 years so sorry about my ignorance. Doing the isolation procedure 1 it failed test 6 which directed me to test D which results say to service fuel pump. So, I guess I will replace fuel pump first then the ECM if needed


If needed? Confused now. Yes, the pump is no good but if not getting voltage to pump wire now it will still not get voltage with a different pump, do you follow? Changing the pump will also not make ignition spark work either. Attack the no pump voltage and no spark situation first.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

evolbob
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:09 am
Location: Brunswick, GA
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade
1994 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby evolbob » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:23 am

Yes, I do follow. I will continue to troubleshoot. I'm determined to get this thing running! Thanks for all your input!

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Bluewaterhooker0
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Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby Bluewaterhooker0 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:31 pm

I may be a lone voice in the woods here, but if you have checked the fuel pump with a direct 12V source, and confirmed the pump is bad, which is a very simple test, I would tend to replace the pump. It's a known bad item, not an uncommon item to fail, that needs replacement anyway. Then see if your problem is solved. If not, on to bigger, more difficult, and more expensive items. That would be my approach. The other issues seem much less likely than a fuel pump, and you know your headed for a pump no matter what.

evolbob
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:09 am
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 Aspencade
1994 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: 94 GL1500A fuel pump or ECM or something else?

Postby evolbob » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:56 pm

UPDATE!!!
I now have voltage to the pump and a spark! Still no pump output, pump is definitely toast! I did the Power and Ground Bank Angle Sensor Isolation test and when I got to the green connector it was completely covered in crud. Cleaned it up and did the test which passed and pointed to a faulty bank angle sensor per the manual. For kicks and grins I reseated the green connector and put my volt meter on the pump then hit the starter and BAM voltage. So, went ahead and pulled a plug wire and checked for spark and voila, archy sparky. All the crud at the connector must've interfered with connection. Come payday I will order a fuel pump (Carter P72190) from rockauto.com.




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