You 4deg adavance guys...question


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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millerized
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You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby millerized » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:31 pm



Did it change the idle a bit? The 'cammy' idle of high lift cams style idle...kinda loping?
Not sure if it's the slight timing change making it feel like a 3/4 lift cam in it or if I have something else going on with the carbs.
Runs like a race-car now, more seat of the pants felt power and acceleration, but just want to make sure the feel of the idle isn't carb related.
I'll pull the belt covers again to verify nothing has changed timing wise as well, but just asking....



warlock1954
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby warlock1954 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:51 pm

Mine runs smooth. No loping at all. Mine was loping, but that was another issue and it was corrected. But you should not have any loping.
David

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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby millerized » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:54 pm

What did your loping end up being caused by?

warlock1954
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby warlock1954 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:58 pm

There are many different things and mine ended up being the sensor on the intake manifold on the throttle side. It is the sensor that connects to the ECM. What it does is advance timing when it is cold and finally goes back to normal once warmed up. Mine wasn't acting right. One thing that it would do was right before the fans would come on I noticed the lop would go away. Once it cooled back down it would lop again. Once I changed the sensor the problem was fixed. But there is more than just the sensor that can make it lop. Vacuum lines leaking. Some has corrected it by running sea foam. Being I had just replaced all mine and check the syn and the carbs was dead on. There is several post on the famous surging.
David

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spiralout
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby spiralout » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:57 am

A "cammy" loping idle that millerized described is not the same thing as a surging idle that that sensor cleared up.

warlock1954
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby warlock1954 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:34 am

spiralout wrote:A "cammy" loping idle that millerized described is not the same thing as a surging idle that that sensor cleared up.

I know the difference. I have run 6 degree wheels and 4 degree wheels and neither one will give you a cam lop. Ran a 6 degree on 2 valkyries for over 100000 miles and got a 4 degree on my 1500 Goldwing and none has ever had a cam lop.

David

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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby millerized » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:38 am

Found my problem. For some reason, I have a vacuum leak at the petcock. New rebuild kit installed while I had the bike apart, so it 'shouldn't' be leaking, but....

Opened the hatch to adjust the idle, and heard a hissing. Hmmm.... Found the can of brake cleaner, fired a shot in there...the surge/idle issues stopped...and so did the hissing if I hit it with enough spray.
:oops:
Will pull that apart and check what's wrong. Luckily it's nothing further down in the motor. I did buy the sensor, but I have a feeling the vacuum leak is my biggest problem. And if it isn't, I've already got the part (for the first time in my 50yrs on this planet!!!!! :lol: )

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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby millerized » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:46 am

spiralout wrote:A "cammy" loping idle


And that's really the easiest way to explain it. If you've never worked with tall cams over stock cams, it's hard to explain. It's easy to hear and feel, but...goes to the 'if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand' realm with some folks. It's not detrimental to performance, it just feels like a 'cammy' motor.
But, at least 99% of it goes away with my discovery of the vacuum leaking at the petcock, so it's not the advance wheel.

I can still tell something is 'different' with the advance...definitely a stump puller through 100mph...it just doesn't stop pulling unless I stop pulling. My Connie (ZG1000) pulls hard up to 100, but this would actually PULL something.

(disclaimer: closed course, professional rider, objects in mirror, YMMV and for an election taking longer than 4yrs consult your Constitution....)

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Dennis613l
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby Dennis613l » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:17 am

I've got the same 4deg advance, no complaints.
As a matter of fact, though I've read in places they recommend running premium fuel with it in place, I just run regular with no knock.

Same finding with others to run regular fuel????

warlock1954
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby warlock1954 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:02 am

Glad you found the problem. So many things it could be. I removed all the un necessary vacuum lines. I have vacuum to the peck ****, cruise control, and ecm. All else removed. I run the mid grade and sometimes premium. My hearing is fading pretty good and with the covers around the engine I can't hear if it is pinging or not. I like my trigger wheel, especially on the trike.
David

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cwgreen1938
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby cwgreen1938 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:00 pm

:oops: David, guess I'm a dumby but what is the deal with the 4 and 6 degree thing?
Are you advancing the timing on your 1500, how do you do it, how much difference does it make? Tell me more.

warlock1954
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby warlock1954 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:28 pm

cwgreen1938 wrote::oops: David, guess I'm a dumby but what is the deal with the 4 and 6 degree thing?
Are you advancing the timing on your 1500, how do you do it, how much difference does it make? Tell me more.

It advances your timing by 4 degrees. On a normal base the goldwing will advance the timing thru the ecm when it is cold. That is why the sensor on the intake manifold is there. The trigger wheel will keep it advanced 4 degree all the time. It does, but doesn't give it horsepower. It delivers it quicker in the low and mid range. Some clam it hurts on the top end. Finding a 4 degree is pretty easy to get, but the 6 degree is a little harder. I ran a 6 degree on my 99 Tourer and had it up to 135 mph by speedometer. I find with the trike the power band helps out with the trigger. The trigger wheel is placed where your timing belts are. It and the stock has prongs that stick out that fires on the pulse generators to fire the plugs. Look at item 18 on this page. That is the stock one and the 4 degree prongs are advanced to fire it quicker. Hope I explained it good enough. Some people like them and some don't. Myself it is worth it, being the trigger wheel isn't that costly.
http://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/a/hon ... ront-cover
and here is a place to buy it
http://cyclemax.com/inc/sdetail/gl1500_ ... /86/159787
David

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cwgreen1938
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby cwgreen1938 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:24 pm

Thanks David for the info. I just had not heard about that before.

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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby millerized » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:32 pm

Was riding it until it stopped on me before I fixed it. It did, so I did. Luckily it did this in the driveway.
The diaphragm was out of the groove around the outside edge. Finally got to a point where it wouldn't hold it open, thus killing the fuel supply. Stretched it back into place where it was supposed to be, pulled a vacuum on the Mity-vac to make sure it would hold. After 2hrs it hadn't dropped so I'm guessing it's good.
It idles like it should, perfect and quiet. No lope like it did before. Does surge a bit, but while I have the new sensor in the saddlebag, I'm in no hurry to get in there and change it. Surge doesn't bother me like the lope did.
Anyway, when the rain is over in the next week or so :cry: we'll see if it makes any difference in the ride/performance.

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Fatwing Chris
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby Fatwing Chris » Thu May 05, 2016 8:15 pm

I did a quite a bit of reading on these wheels when I had my 89 and took away 2 bits of info that most agreed on.
1.Neither the Wing or the Valk need it.People put them on and it feels better,but it's just masking the real problem for a short time.
2.It makes both harder on fuel and the Valk is thirsty enough.

Just info I've gleaned from a lot of research on a few different forums.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
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Fatwing Chris
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby Fatwing Chris » Thu May 05, 2016 8:16 pm

I did a quite a bit of reading on these wheels when I had my 89 and took away 2 bits of info that most agreed on.
1.Neither the Wing or the Valk need it.People put them on and it feels better,but it's just masking the real problem for a short time.
2.It makes both harder on fuel and the Valk is thirsty enough already.

Just info I've gleaned from a lot of research on a few different forums.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
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millerized
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby millerized » Sun May 08, 2016 8:52 am

Fatwing Chris wrote:but it's just masking the real problem for a short time.


What would that problem be?

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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby Fatwing Chris » Sun May 08, 2016 9:57 am

millerized wrote:
Fatwing Chris wrote:but it's just masking the real problem for a short time.


What would that problem be?


Dirty or poorly adjusted carbs.Sticking/worn out slides.The 88's and early 89's came with the wrong jets also,but I would assume that after all these years that they would have been replaced at some point.Pretty common knowledge so I can't see anyone having an issue wouldn't have at least checked the jets to make sure they were updated.Vacuum leaks is also a well known problem on these.
My 89 never had the hesitation but I never purchased it until 03 or so.I assume that mine had already been updated before that.

If it needed 4 more degrees of advance Mother Honda would have changed it somewhere in the 12 year run of the 1500 don't you think?
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
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warlock1954
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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby warlock1954 » Sun May 08, 2016 1:12 pm

Fatwing Chris wrote:
millerized wrote:
Fatwing Chris wrote:but it's just masking the real problem for a short time.


What would that problem be?


Dirty or poorly adjusted carbs.Sticking/worn out slides.The 88's and early 89's came with the wrong jets also,but I would assume that after all these years that they would have been replaced at some point.Pretty common knowledge so I can't see anyone having an issue wouldn't have at least checked the jets to make sure they were updated.Vacuum leaks is also a well known problem on these.
My 89 never had the hesitation but I never purchased it until 03 or so.I assume that mine had already been updated before that.

If it needed 4 more degrees of advance Mother Honda would have changed it somewhere in the 12 year run of the 1500 don't you think?

There are tons of companies that offer up grade/performance for just about and bike out there. Nothing wrong with leaving a bike stock, some others like a little more out of it. Putting on trigger wheel will not hide any miss a judgment issues. The only reason I put a 4 degree on mine is because I couldn't find a 6 degree.
David

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Re: You 4deg adavance guys...question

Postby millerized » Sun May 08, 2016 2:37 pm

Fatwing Chris wrote:Dirty or poorly adjusted carbs.Sticking/worn out slides.The 88's and early 89's came with the wrong jets also,but I would assume that after all these years that they would have been replaced at some point.Pretty common knowledge so I can't see anyone having an issue wouldn't have at least checked the jets to make sure they were updated.Vacuum leaks is also a well known problem on these.
My 89 never had the hesitation but I never purchased it until 03 or so.I assume that mine had already been updated before that.

If it needed 4 more degrees of advance Mother Honda would have changed it somewhere in the 12 year run of the 1500 don't you think?

In my experience, timing changes won't mask poor carb setup or general carb problems.
MamaHonda probably didn't want to add the requirement for premium gas, or to prevent other problems like detonation. For the most part, and all in all, it's a pretty mild adjustment that has been used in vehicles since they first started using a distributor. I'd done it in the 70's with my first car, taught this by my dad. In and of itself, it's just another thing you can do for a bit of benefit without causing major problems or $$$ modifications.
Just my opinion. I've had it on my last 3 motorcycles, this being the 4th. Just adds a bit of something to the seat of the pants feel without subtracting a bunch of $$$ from your wallet.




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