1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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Shawn4245
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Location: Atlanta Ga
Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:08 pm



Hello Everyone, I am new to this site and have read and learned a bunch. I see that I am not alone with an 88 that will not start!!! I recently purchased this bike. 1988 GL1500 with reverse. 36,800 miles. I Drove it home 7 hours in that time had to stop and start maybe 8-10 times, got home started it again and ran just like it should. Never gave me a problem. The man I purchased it from started it with a cold engine (I made sure it was cold and not warmed up because I was coming) Anyways, the second or maybe the third time I turned the key and pushed start it did nothing. The front lights dim and go out when I push the start button. I can touch a screw driver to the starter relay (Right side of the battery box) and it will spark and start the engine. So, I replaced the starter relay with a new one...It did the same thing, so I bought a used one off ebay, still nothing. I replaced the dog bone fuse and actual whole dog bone assembly. It came with my used starter relay from ebay, still nothing. So I replaced the CDI ECU Box / ECU Computer with a used ebay part, and still nothing. It will still start if I use a screw driver if I touch both posts on the relay (That I replaced 2 times already) and it will start. I did find another relay on the left side of the battery Not sure what it does. I have read here that there are two relays if you have reverse. I can only find these two.... one on the left of the battery and the one on the right that goes directly to the starter (this is the one I can hot wire it to start the bike)
So now I am completely stuck and I do not know what to look at next.
It will run and I have driven it several hundred miles after I have hot wired it so, I don't think it is the kill switch or the kick stand sensor. It is on the center stand in neutral right now. I have moved the reverse lever back and forth and even wiggled it while trying to start it normally and it does nothing.
I have also taken the black fuse/relay located next to the main fuse panel and replaced it with another one from the same panel (switched them) and still nothing. I cleaned up the grounds and all the grounding spots I could find and nothing, I have used my car battery (while car is off) and connected jumper cables to the wings battery and hoped it would give it enough power to start. Nothing. I have 12.6V at the battery and the same when I push the start button.
Please any help would be greatly appreciated!!!! To top off this problem, the speed odometer cable broke, so I have the bike pretty much stripped down to get access to the back of the gauge cluster. So my bike is pretty much all over my garage!
Any thoughts or comments?



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Bluewaterhooker0
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Bluewaterhooker0 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:14 pm

Have you checked the "start/reverse" switch. That switch does 2 things. It turns the headlights off to conserve power for starting (sounds like yours is), and it also feeds current to start the bike. You might try 'working' it with the key off, and even spraying some cleaner into it while you repeatedly cycle the switch. That may clean off the 'start' contacts enough to point you in the correct direction for the problem. After 50 or so cycles, see if it then will start.

Shawn4245
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Atlanta Ga
Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:20 pm

Bluewaterhooker0 wrote:Have you checked the "start/reverse" switch. That switch does 2 things. It turns the headlights off to conserve power for starting (sounds like yours is), and it also feeds current to start the bike. You might try 'working' it with the key off, and even spraying some cleaner into it while you repeatedly cycle the switch. That may clean off the 'start' contacts enough to point you in the correct direction for the problem. After 50 or so cycles, see if it then will start.


Hello Bluewaterhooker, thank you for the suggestion. I went up to the auto parts store and bought some electronic component cleaner. I did as you suggested and cycled it 50+times and then sprayed some cleaner in it and then cycled it again 50+ times. Nothing. I took the control apart to look inside and maybe a bit of corrosion but nothing major. I sprayed inside and let it dissipate while cycling a bunch more times, Nothing. Still have the headlight off when the start button is depressed, kill switch is in the correct position. All dash lights are on as they should be. Just nothing. I do hear a single click in the relay box next to the main fuse panel. I have always heard that.

I sure am stuck at this point.

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ct1500
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby ct1500 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:05 pm

A $2 12v test light could have saved you hundreds of dollars in the replacement of good parts. The A relay is to the right of battery and B relay to the left. Test for voltage on small wires of relay A both the yellow/red and brown/red with starter button pushed. Are these OEM parts or something else?
This is what I do
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Charlie1Horse
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Charlie1Horse » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:59 pm

Did you load check the battery? When you jump the solenoid with a screwdriver you are making a high amperage connection and I think you are bypassing a couple circuits which allows more battery power for the starter. If the PO hasn't replaced the battery recently it may be failing and not have quite enough power to start properly. Just my $0.02.
Russell

Those who say it cannot be done should try not to interrupt those who are doing it.

Shawn4245
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Location: Atlanta Ga
Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:03 am

ct1500 wrote:A $2 12v test light could have saved you hundreds of dollars in the replacement of good parts. The A relay is to the right of battery and B relay to the left. Test for voltage on small wires of relay A both the yellow/red and brown/red with starter button pushed. Are these OEM parts or something else?


ct1500, I will be heading up to the corner auto parts store, as soon as they open, to get a light. As to OEM or not. The first relay a was a knock off, the second was off ebay and is a salvage part, (not sure if the one I am replacing is OEM or not. They have all looked exactly the same. The ECU is off a Salvage bike as well, a 1988 wing.

I will check the small wires as you suggested and see if they have power and which ones do not. Then, I will need a bit of help as to where this will point me. I hope you will jump back in and assist.

I am going to put back in all the original parts until I can locate the issue, seems like the new/used parts are not the issue, so I will save them for another time.

THANK YOU!!!! I need all the help I can get!

Shawn4245
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Atlanta Ga
Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:07 am

Charlie1Horse wrote:Did you load check the battery? When you jump the solenoid with a screwdriver you are making a high amperage connection and I think you are bypassing a couple circuits which allows more battery power for the starter. If the PO hasn't replaced the battery recently it may be failing and not have quite enough power to start properly. Just my $0.02.
Russell

Those who say it cannot be done should try not to interrupt those who are doing it.


Charlie1Horse, I did load check the battery while pressing the start button and nothing changed. I am at 12.75v sitting still and with the start button pressed. I will do as you suggested and check it while hot wiring it. I can only hope is it as simple as the battery!

Thanks I will posts the results.Thanks

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seelyark1
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby seelyark1 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:44 am

A dumb question, but have you checked the fuses and relays? I did not see it mentioned in your posts. You say that you replaced the solenoid.
Ride safe, and smart. Asphalt is like #1 grit sandpaper. Dave

Shawn4245
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Atlanta Ga
Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:16 pm

seelyark1 wrote:A dumb question, but have you checked the fuses and relays? I did not see it mentioned in your posts. You say that you replaced the solenoid.


Well it is not a dumb question. I did check the fuses and switched the relays around. Still Nothing. I have now put in a new battery and it did nothing different. So I put in on a charger to be sure it is fully charged and will try it again a an hour or so.

I have also checked with a check light the kill switch and the start button and they are working properly, they energize the correct post when in position.

I am so stuck now.

Shawn4245
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Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:33 pm

ct1500 wrote:A $2 12v test light could have saved you hundreds of dollars in the replacement of good parts. The A relay is to the right of battery and B relay to the left. Test for voltage on small wires of relay A both the yellow/red and brown/red with starter button pushed. Are these OEM parts or something else?


ct1500, thank you for the suggestion of getting a test light. I have never used one, watched a youtube video and went and picked one up. here is what I found. Kill switch and the start button work properly. The small wires yellow/red and brown/red are energized.

I checked al the fuses in the main fuse panel and found the parking fuse slot to be dead. The fuse works in another slot, but the actual parking fuse spot is dead. Everything else lights right up.

Now what??????? I am sure it is the parking fuse causing the issue but it is the actual slot not the fuse. Any suggestions?

Shawn4245
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Atlanta Ga
Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:36 pm

Shawn4245 wrote:
seelyark1 wrote:A dumb question, but have you checked the fuses and relays? I did not see it mentioned in your posts. You say that you replaced the solenoid.


Well it is not a dumb question. I did check the fuses by eye they are all good. Because you said check I did it with my light and sure enough the parking slot is dead. The fuse works in another spot so the fuse is good, but the slot has no energy to it.

Any thoughts as to where to go and look now??? I do not know how to check the relays, can you help me with that. I did move the relays around and switched them and it did nothing different.

Thank you for helping!!!!

Shawn4245
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Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:57 pm

Charlie1Horse wrote:Did you load check the battery? When you jump the solenoid with a screwdriver you are making a high amperage connection and I think you are bypassing a couple circuits which allows more battery power for the starter. If the PO hasn't replaced the battery recently it may be failing and not have quite enough power to start properly. Just my $0.02.
Russell

Those who say it cannot be done should try not to interrupt those who are doing it.


Charlie1Horse, I did check the battery while hot wiring, it dropped to 11.1v. I went out and picked up a new battery, so far it did nothing different. I put it on charge to make sure it has full power. I double checked the kill switch and the start button, they are working properly according to my test light. The small wires heading into the start solenoid are also hot.

any thoughts?

Shawn4245
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Location: Atlanta Ga
Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:31 pm

Shawn4245 wrote:
ct1500 wrote:A $2 12v test light could have saved you hundreds of dollars in the replacement of good parts. The A relay is to the right of battery and B relay to the left. Test for voltage on small wires of relay A both the yellow/red and brown/red with starter button pushed. Are these OEM parts or something else?[/quote

ct1500, thank you for the suggestion of getting a test light. I have never used one, watched a youtube video and went and picked one up. here is what I found. Kill switch and the start button work properly. The small wires yellow/red and brown/red are energized.

I checked al the fuses in the main fuse panel and found the parking fuse slot to be dead. The fuse works in another slot, but the actual parking fuse spot is dead. Everything else lights right up.

Now what??????? I am sure it is the parking fuse causing the issue but it is the actual slot not the fuse. Any suggestions?


So I have learned that the parking fuse will only be energized if the key is in "P" and it works like it should.

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ct1500
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby ct1500 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:18 pm

Shawn4245 wrote: Kill switch and the start button work properly. The small wires yellow/red and brown/red are energized.


Well then that means the brown/red wire is not grounding out like it should. Does your neutral light work? Under the seat on the crossmember towards the right side at back of fuel tank next to big fuse is the reverse relay switch that has 4 wires going to it. Disconnect connector with all other electrical plugged in. Yellow/red and black/green should have power with button pushed. Now with key off attach test light lead to positive battery post and test the other two wires for proper grounding, test light will be lit bike in neutral.
This is what I do
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Shawn4245
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Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:54 pm

ct1500 wrote:
Shawn4245 wrote: Kill switch and the start button work properly. The small wires yellow/red and brown/red are energized.


Well then that means the brown/red wire is not grounding out like it should. Does your neutral light work? Under the seat on the crossmember towards the right side at back of fuel tank next to big fuse is the reverse relay switch that has 4 wires going to it. Disconnect connector with all other electrical plugged in. Yellow/red and black/green should have power with button pushed. Now with key off attach test light lead to positive battery post and test the other two wires for proper grounding, test light will be lit bike in neutral.


Thank you for your help!!! Yes my Neutral light and the side stand lights work.

I think I found the relay connector you mentioned it is attached to another big dog bone fuse panel. There are 4 wires, yellow/red and brown/red. They have power when the start is pushed. I turned the key off and connected to the positive post of the battery, I only get a ground on the blue/red, Not the green/red. The light lights up on blue/red only.

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ct1500
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby ct1500 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:39 pm

On right side of engine just in back of oil dipstick is the reverse switch which must have continuity to ground with reverse lever in forward position. Redo the test of the green/red up top with a jumper wire from switch on side of engine to a good engine ground point (leave switch wire attached), if it now lights that means wiring is good and switch is either stuck open, defective or reverse cables not adjusted properly.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

Shawn4245
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:05 pm

ct1500 wrote:On right side of engine just in back of oil dipstick is the reverse switch which must have continuity to ground with reverse lever in forward position. Redo the test of the green/red up top with a jumper wire from switch on side of engine to a good engine ground point (leave switch wire attached), if it now lights that means wiring is good and switch is either stuck open, defective or reverse cables not adjusted properly.


ct1500, I found the wire behind the dipstick. It is a single wire brown and red that has a rubber boot over a single post. I connected my light to the ground of the battery and got nothing. when connected to my positive post of the battery I get it to light. Nothing happens changes when I push start.

Did I do this correctly???? It looks like the post is part of something screwed into the engine. Can I remove this from the engine? can it be cleaned or tested to see if it is stuck open or not?

I am getting hopeful!!!! Thanks, I look forward to your answer!

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ct1500
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby ct1500 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:40 pm

Shawn4245 wrote:
ct1500 wrote:ct1500, I found the wire behind the dipstick. It is a single wire brown and red that has a rubber boot over a single post. I connected my light to the ground of the battery and got nothing. when connected to my positive post of the battery I get it to light. Nothing happens changes when I push start.


Close enough if with point of test light on switch stud it lights then switch is good with clip on positive battery post. Then it is a problem with the wiring, most likely at the diode pack behind the right saddlebag with the green/red and green/orange wires the next test point. The packs are in a rubber boot which runs along the luggage frame stay below fuel pump relay and about 4-5" to the rear of compressor valves. List all the wire colors you have going into the packs and show a picture if possible.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

Shawn4245
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Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:52 pm

ct1500 wrote:
Shawn4245 wrote:
ct1500 wrote:ct1500, I found the wire behind the dipstick. It is a single wire brown and red that has a rubber boot over a single post. I connected my light to the ground of the battery and got nothing. when connected to my positive post of the battery I get it to light. Nothing happens changes when I push start.


Close enough if with point of test light on switch stud it lights then switch is good with clip on positive battery post. Then it is a problem with the wiring, most likely at the diode pack behind the right saddlebag with the green/red and green/orange wires the next test point. The packs are in a rubber boot which runs along the luggage frame stay below fuel pump relay and about 4-5" to the rear of compressor valves. List all the wire colors you have going into that device and show a picture.



I located the diode pack. I will upload a picture. (update..the diode pack I thought I located was the fuel relay. The picture I have attached is a rubber boot over what I thought were fuses. You will see in the picture that the boot looks like it was rubbing on the back tire. There is a broken receptacle and the fuse is missing. After further thought and investigation this is the diode holder and one of the diode is missing. I took one of the other ones out and put it in the empty place and it fired right up!!!! Now to find the part and then to really tape it in place, as well as move the holder/rubber boot away from the back tire!!!!!!
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seelyark1
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1998 GL1500 SE Totaled
1984 VT500C
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby seelyark1 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:56 pm

Yea team!!!! It took a bit but with teamwork, it is working again :D
Ride safe, and smart. Asphalt is like #1 grit sandpaper. Dave

Shawn4245
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Location: Atlanta Ga
Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:54 pm

seelyark1 wrote:Yea team!!!! It took a bit but with teamwork, it is working again :D



YES Sir!!!! Now if I can get it all back together and have no extra parts will be a trick for sure. It is truly all over my garage!!!!! Thanks to everyone who helped!!! :D

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Bluewaterhooker0
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Bluewaterhooker0 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:54 pm

That is SO COOL.
What a diagnostic feat !
CT1500....You Da Man !

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OldZX11Rider
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby OldZX11Rider » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:25 am

Engine won't start, check under saddlebag!
I really like reading these posts where a problem is solved, going step by step, eliminating things one by one.
Although I couldn't help, I learned a little bit. ;)
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain:

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ct1500
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Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby ct1500 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:06 pm

Ref No. 1 is the OEM part needed.

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com ... %20HARNESS

However most electronic shops and maybe Radio Schlok will carry a two lead 400v 10a barrel style diode, black with silver band and can be used in place of the above. They are polarity sensitive so will work only in one direction configuration. Tape/protect it up well and is good as new.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/1933912
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

Shawn4245
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Atlanta Ga
Motorcycle: 1988 Gl1500

Re: 1988 1500 will not start, but will hot wire start!

Postby Shawn4245 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:32 pm

ct1500 wrote:Ref No. 1 is the OEM part needed.

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com ... %20HARNESS

However most electronic shops and maybe Radio Schlok will carry a two lead 400v 10a barrel style diode, black with silver band and can be used in place of the above. They are polarity sensitive so will work only in one direction configuration. Tape/protect it up good and is good as new.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/1933912


Ct1500, Your help was more than stellar, it was amazing!!! I am not sure how to exactly thank you, I would have to take this bike in for service !!!! Thank You so very much!!!!!




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