Sudden start problem


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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JLB
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:17 am
Location: HUIZEN, NH, Netherlands
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500

Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:40 am



Hi,
I’m in the blue as al systems of my 1500 (1988) suddenly seem to deteriorate.
What happened?
During a weekend drive of about 900 miles all went well until the last fuelling.
The starter idled but the engine seemed dead.
After some attempts to find the cause (no sparking and no fuel pump action) the motor cycle had to be transported home.
At home I removed the saddle again and disconnected all plugs under the saddle and cleaned them. And after the first attempt the engine started right away. So the fuel pump and ignition are good.
To make sure that all connections were checked and cleaned I disassembled the right side trunk as well and cleaned the connections of the fuel pump relay.
After assembling the problem occurred again. The starter idled but nothing happened. So again I disassembled the saddle and right side trunk and disconnected the Fuel pump relay wiring. Measuring the connector shows no battery voltage input. But even more disturbing is the fact that after reconnecting the relay wiring the starter now doesn’t work either. All lights on the dash light up just right and the fuel indicator works as well but the system is dead.

What is it that can initially cause only the fuel pump and ignition and later on also the starter to fail? Of course I checked if the safety engine stop switch is On.

Regards,
Hans Bruijn



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ct1500
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby ct1500 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:13 am

By-pass the Bank Angle Sensor
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This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:35 am

Hi ct1500,
Thank you for your advice!
I'l try it and let you know.

Kind regards,
Hans Bruijn

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MikeB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby MikeB » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:49 pm

Check the Kill switch on the right handle bar switch quadrant. If the Kill switch is faulty, you could get the indications you are describing. The starter will turn the engine but it will not start due to a lack of spark and fuel delivery.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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WingAdmin
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:35 pm

It could also be just a low battery - the GL1500 takes a LOT of power to crank. If the battery is weak, it will still crank the engine over, but will not have enough power left to spark the plugs.

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Charlie1Horse
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby Charlie1Horse » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:40 pm

Check the terminal connections under the kill switch. Many miles and years of vibration at the handlebar will loosen these connectors. Remove the kill switch and tighten these terminals. When one or both of them are loose you won't have spark or fuel. Only takes about five minutes to check.
Russell

Those who say it cannot be done should try not to interrupt those who are doing it.

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:58 am

Thank you all for your support.
I’m going to try all options this weekend as I haven’t had the time yet.
It just stands there dismantled waiting for repair.
Hopefully one or more suggestions will solve the problem.
It’s definitely not the battery as I always connect it to an intelligent loader to keep the battery in top condition. I’ve applied a small connector which makes it easy to preserve the battery with one click any moment of the day. Besides I have replaced it last year with a maintenance free gel battery. A little more expensive but with a lot of extra useful amps.

It’s just a strange coincidence that after cleaning all connectors not only the fuel pump and the ignition failed but also the starter suddenly went dead. All the dash lights work and indicate no problems. When I use the reverse I can hear the relay make a clicking sound. All external lights such as headlights work just fine so I’m still wandering what the reason of these failures could be.
I will keep you posted!

Regards,
Hans Bruijn

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:05 am

By-passing the Bank Angle Sensor solved te problem!
I dismantled the kill switch just to make sure this wouldn’t byte me in the future and fastened the screws.
They could have some maintenance so that’s covered for another many miles.
However it did not solve the dead starter, silent fuel pump and ignition problems.
But after by-passing the Bank angle sensor everything suddenly worked.
So thank you ct1500!!!!!
I hope that when I replace this attribute all will be fine again.
Is there anything else I have to keep in mind or will this be the fixing solution?

Regards,
Hans Bruijn

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:19 am

Had a drive for about one hour. Than stopped for a coffee. And then comming back .... it would'nt start. The starter rev'd but the engine was dead again. All dash light lighted up accept the cruise control lights. So is this an indication to the cause?
It's for sure becoming an unreliable bike. Let alone all the trouble of getting home again and severe transportation issues.

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seelyark1
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby seelyark1 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:31 am

You say the starter reved, but did it engage? Hard to tell what could be wrong with so little to go on. Did your bypass come disconnected?
Ride safe, and smart. Asphalt is like #1 grit sandpaper. Dave

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bellboy40
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Motorcycle: 1994 GL1500SE
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby bellboy40 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:44 pm

JLB wrote:Had a drive for about one hour. Than stopped for a coffee. And then comming back .... it would'nt start. The starter rev'd but the engine was dead again. All dash light lighted up accept the cruise control lights. So is this an indication to the cause?
It's for sure becoming an unreliable bike. Let alone all the trouble of getting home again and severe transportation issues.


I don't have a wiring diagram for the 88 model, but if it is like the later models, the cruise lights not coming on is definately an indication that you have a problem with the power to the coils. Possible causes could be the BAS, kill switch, ign/start/cruise fuse or the ign/cruise relay. That is where I would start. Take the kill switch apart and see if you have battery voltage on both terminals with the ignition switch turned on.

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:42 pm

The starter engaged. The engine turned top speed by the starter but without the fuel pump delivering fuel to the carb and without the ignition delivering sparks. The BAS has already been thoroughly by passed to make sure this isn’t the issue. The battery is 100%. I have checked the kill switch and it is in top condition although I have not checked voltage on the contacts of it. But will there be any voltage on it to measure if the power to the fuel pump and ignition is already cut?
So what remains is probably the ign/start/cruise fuse or the ign/cruise relay?
What disturbs me is that the problem occurred before and it solved itself and let me start the bike several times and even let me drive 80 miles without any indication of problems.
And after those 80 miles and after a normal shut down it just failed to start again.

Regards,
Hans Bruijn

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bellboy40
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby bellboy40 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:49 pm

Yes, check that voltage at the kill switch. It has to be there before it goes to the pump or coils. You could put both the wires under one screw and that will bypass the kill switch as a test to see if that cures the trouble.

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:10 pm

Ok. I'll try this.
Let you know the results.
Thanks.

joseph*blue
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby joseph*blue » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:45 pm

Have you checked your battery to make sure the fluid level is right? If it is not full of water, fill it with water, tilt it slowly back and forth for a few minutes . If your battery was dry, all the electrolyte has settled to bottom, and will not take a charge. Charge it for 12 hours on 2 amps and try it again. Not sure this is your problem, but it worked on mine.

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:55 pm

No it's a maintenance free gel battery just one year old.
The water we get here is only rain.
As my bike is still secured on an ambulance and the rain is pouring down hour after hour day in day out I have had no opportunity to check out new suggestions. That’s Holland these days. But thanks for the suggestion as all suggestions are so very welcome.

JLB
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Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500

Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:28 am

I have measured the voltage on the kill switch.
Ignition on reads between 0.5 to 0.7 volts.
Ignition off reads 0.0 volts.
So is here an opening to solving the problem?
The kill switch is in excellent condition.
The switch inside is really brand new.

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bellboy40
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby bellboy40 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:05 am

It appears your trouble is ign start/cruise fuse #11 or the ign/cruise relay #6. Another possibility is the relay #6 is not getting a ground to its coil to operate. That ground comes from the BAS. You need to check for voltage on both sides of that fuse. If that is ok then swap the relay with another one in the relay box to see if that fixes it. If not, then see if you have voltage on the coil of relay #6 and a ground on the other side of the coil.
Here is a diagram of the ignition circuit for the 93 model. I don't have a diagram for your year but I think it would be the same. The battery voltage flow is from the ignition switch, ignition cruise fuse, ignition cruise relay, engine stop switch, to the coils and ECU.
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JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:58 am

Thanks!
I'm goining to work on this.
I have just removed the top trunk to be able to reach anything I haven’t been able to reach before.
It's not a very clean picture under there as the last ride after which the problems started we were locked in an area with intense showers.
So I will have to do a little bit of cleaning up before I can make out where everything is.
Well I can get to work now.

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:18 am

Fuse 11 is good.
Removing and putting it back results into klicks somewhere from under the front right side.
I have switched relay’s but without any result.
There is voltage and ground on the coil of relay 6.
I have bypassed the BAS the other day as besides this problem the starter also went dead.
After that action (bypassing the BAS) strange enough the engine started immediately and let me drive those 80 miles.
So at that moment I had the impression that I had solved the problem.
Anyway right now the problem still remains unsolved.

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bellboy40
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby bellboy40 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:40 am

Did you swap relay #6 with another one yet? If relay #6 is operating but you do not have any voltage at the kill switch, there has to be a problem with relay #6 or the wiring from it to the kill switch.
See if you have voltage at the blk/lt grn wire on relay #6?

PS - All my above posting is from looking at the later model wiring diagrams. If the 88 model is not the same then we are chasing our tail. If the wiring is different, someone with a diagram of the 88 model will have to jump in here to help.

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:52 am

Yes I swapped them and there is about 13 volt on #6.
Ignition off still gives 13 volt on #6.

JLB
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby JLB » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:54 am

I read something about a Petcock on the forum.
What is that and where can I find it?

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virgilmobile
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:00 am

1988/89.
Fuse #2 relay #8.
These operate power for the ignition.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Sudden start problem

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:03 am

Here's the picture.




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