New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing


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mrenfro
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New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby mrenfro » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:26 pm



Hello everyone, I need some advice and opinions. Picked up a screw in the rear tire of my 1990 1500 SE about a month ago. Front tire was old so I decided to replace both. Ordered Avon Cobras and mounted them both myself. Not too bad a job, but time consuming, took two days. Also ordered Counteract beads so I would not have to take them to be balanced. Removed wheel weights and installed 2oz.of beads front and rear. Now the front end bounces between 25mph and 35mph. Smooth's out around 45mph and faster. I'm thinking front tire is out of balance even with 2oz. of beads in it. Anyone have any ideas?



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MikeB
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby MikeB » Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:00 am

mrenfro wrote:...Now the front end bounces between 25mph and 35mph. Smooth's out around 45mph and faster. I'm thinking front tire is out of balance even with 2oz. of beads in it. Anyone have any ideas?

By bouncing do you mean head shake? In other words, do the handlebars wobble on deceleration or is the front wheel bouncing vertically?

If the wheel is bouncing vertically, take a look at your mounting. The bead may not be seated correctly. Look at the rib on the tire around the circumference of the wheel, it should be equidistant from the edge of the rim all the way around. If the bead is not seated correctly, take the wheel off the bike, break the bead all the way around on both sides and then re-inflate. Let the air out, bounce the wheel and tire assembly on the ground as you rotate the wheel and tire assembly, then re-inflate once again and check the rib around the wheel.

If it is head shake, you may have to live with it.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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mrenfro
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby mrenfro » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:03 am

The front end bounces vertically. Thanks for the suggestion, I will recheck the bead.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby mrenfro » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:21 am

I rechecked my mounting and the bead seating. It all looked good. There is a slightly raised ridge on the tire which sits just at the edge of the rim after the bead is set (popped out). It is consistent all the way around. Removed the brake calipers so the wheel would spin more freely. It spun pretty freely, making about a dozen revolutions per spin. I spun the wheel 10 times marking the stopping point with pencil on the rim. It always stops then rolls back a little within about a 10 inch arc on the wheel radius. I realize this is not a computer balancer, I was just trying to get a feel for it. There does seem to be a heavy spot on the wheel.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby CrystalPistol » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:39 am

No question about it, you have a heavy spot. The beads will not balance or unbalance it when spun by hand .... they will just lay at the bottom.
You say you put 2 ounces in.
If it were me (and I do use a form of beads to balance) .... I'd probably put 2 more ounces, at the very least one more. The excess will spread out around the inner surface.

My '85 GL1200 and '97 GL1500 trike (Avon Cobra Trike Radial) both have 3 or more ounces in front tires and 4 ounces in 1200's rear tire of Airsoft Red Jacket hard plastic .22 cal BBs. No bounce, smooth as silk. The trike rear tires are 215/70-15 and they likewise, have about 4 ounces each. I just put them in through the bead before seating. I use a small tube on a shop vac to evacuate them at change time when the bead is opened up.

(I've tried them on 60 and 55 series tires and found that .... like the websites say .... they are not a good balance media by themselves as tire floor inside is "wide" and "flat" unlike narrower tires with a rounded inner profile.)
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RoadRogue
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby RoadRogue » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:33 pm

You have to make sure to use dry air in the tires, any water from the compressor will cause the beads to clump together. Can you hear them rolling freely when you spin the wheel by hand? 8-)
Ride safe, Todd
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bellboy40
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby bellboy40 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:59 pm

CrystalPistol wrote:snip...
My '85 GL1200 and '97 GL1500 trike (Avon Cobra Trike Radial) both have 3 or more ounces in front tires and 4 ounces in 1200's rear tire of [b]Airsoft Red Jacket hard plastic .22 cal bbs{/b]. No bounce, smooth as silk. The trike rear tires are 215/70-15 and they likewise, have about 4 ounces each. I just put them in through the bead before seating. I use a small tube on a shop vac to evacuate them at change time when the bead is opened up. ....etc


CrystalPistol, Is something like this what you are using to balance your tires? Just wondering where you get them.

https://www.amazon.com/Crosman-AirSoft- ... ingdocs-20

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mrenfro
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby mrenfro » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:27 pm

Thanks for the idea RoadRouge. I can't hear them rolling when I spin the tire, but these beads are tiny and my hearing is not so good. If they were clumped together from moisture, would they eventually dry out and start working? I used a small Porter Cable air compressor to inflate the tires, no dryer on it.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby CrystalPistol » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:07 pm

bellboy40 wrote:
CrystalPistol, Is something like this what you are using to balance your tires? Just wondering where you get them.

https://www.amazon.com/Crosman-AirSoft- ... ingdocs-20


Close enough, I said .22 cal, but the jug does say 6mm. They are hard plastic and I've pulled them out at tire change and rinsed the dirt / dust off (it's in my small car/shop vacuum, not the tire) and they dry so fast, I either put them back in the jug or reuse them. I weigh them with a postal scale that has a tray .... close enough.

Mine all came from Walmart.

Here's the ones I use, but either will do. These are pretty dense at .15 gr per.
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Jacket-Airso ... ingdocs-20
Image

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Bigbiker0
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby Bigbiker0 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:31 pm

to recover the beads in my tire I use a nylon sock of my wife in the vacuum hose and I tape it outside the hose.
Drive safely Heaven do not exist.

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bellboy40
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby bellboy40 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:57 pm

Ok, thanks for the info Crystal.
Hey Bigbiker, that is a cool idea. Thanks for that also.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby tprender » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:29 am

I am glad to hear that someone else besides me reuse the beads. People call me cheap, but it gives me more money to buy goodies for the wing. I like the idea of putting the sock inside of the vacumn hose.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby tfdeputydawg » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:58 am

You might want to read about RideOn and get rid of the beads:
http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html
Been using it for years. Perfect balancing of wheels/tires + puncture protection!

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:49 am

Hows the oil in the forks?
No oil no dampening.They will bounce freely.

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mrenfro
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby mrenfro » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:45 pm

Fork oil should be ok, changed it about 2 years ago. Also it didn't have the 30mph bounce before I put on the new tire.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:47 pm

Good.Just asking..covering all the bases

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jamie f
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby jamie f » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:36 pm

Mrenfro,i also just installed Avon Cobra tires on my 1500.and I also used counteract balancing beads,2 oz front and rear.Now at 20 to 35 mph I'm getting a " buzzing" vibration in handlebars that goes away then comes back at 60 mph.While I don't have the "wheel hop" going on,im still concerned about the buzzing vibration.keep us posted on yours,and if anyone has any advice about this buzzing,that would be great.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby mrenfro » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:00 am

Still trying to work out my 30mph bounce on a new Avon Cobra front tire. I had the old wheel weights that I removed when I changed the tires and put beads in them, so I tried to static balance the front tire. I removed the brakes and spedo so it would spin freely. There was definitely a heavy spot, although the beads threw it off a little. It would stop within a 3 or 4 inch range each spin. So I split the difference and put some weight opposite the stopping point. After numerous spins the stopping point became random with no apparent heavy spot. I'm sure it's not perfect. It did improve the bounce. Now it's only within a narrow range around 30mph and not to pronounced. It's livable, but I'm not going to live with it. Next step is to break down the tire and try to reseat the bead. I'll keep everyone posted.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby aj1500 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:52 am

did you make sure to put the little dot on the tire even with the valve stem when you mounted your tire, if so I would break it down turn it exactly 180 degrees and re-seat it. If that doesn't work then you have a tire with a internal heavy spot and you may not get it a ride smooth at all speeds no matter what you do to it. if your going to try to static balance the tire you have to remove the beads, then once static balance is done add the beads back in. keep in mind it only takes a bead seat being off a little bit to cause a problem
good luck, hope you get it squared away

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MikeB
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby MikeB » Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:34 pm

Avon typically does not put a spot mark on their tires. I have mounted multiple sets of Avon tires and have never seen a spot of any kind.
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bellboy40
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby bellboy40 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:36 pm

Same here. I have been using Avon tires for many years and have never seen a spot on the tire to align with the valve core.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby Big Bob » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:13 pm

That has to suck, all that work and not a smooth ride, I just had 2 new E3's installed on my '96 Aspencade with just over 140,000 at a local shop. I have them do the install and give the bike a once over inspection. The out the door price was $525 mounted balanced, splines lubed, inspection, and disposal of old tires. The owner is a certified Honda Yamaha mechanic who ride an 1800 himself, and seems to do a good job on everything he works on, from tires/and oil changes to major rebuilds. For the time it saves, I don't mind having this task done for me.Just my opinion, I hope you get your tire problem fixed, that has to really suck especially working on it for 2 days!!

Bob
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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby Wingsconsin » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:59 am

I had a similar problem on my '96 GL1500.
A slight 'bounce' at low speeds...like 25-35 MPH (coming in and out of my subdivision usually)

What I think was happening was the speed is too low for the beads to find their balance point.

Once I was going a bit faster it all smoothed up up to 100 MPH !
But it never seemed to be a problem and the tires always lasted well for me -
Now on my GL1800 I use Centramatic balancers - but they aren't available for the GL1500


Postings are my opinions based on experience and acquired knowledge.
Your results may vary. Universal disclaimers apply.


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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby mrenfro » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:36 am

Well here's the latest. Not knowing what else to try, I pulled the wheel Fri. morn to break down and reseat the bead. It popped on and looked great as it had when I originally mounted it. This is my first try with balance beads, so my first thought through the whole ordeal was the tire is out of balance. Rode down to the dinner for breakfast, front end still had the hop at 30mph. I'm pretty self reliant, as many are here, but I had tried all I knew to correct it. I called the Honda shop and they said bring them the tire and they would balance it for $15. I thought this was a great price to end the frustration I was having. But I had to remove the balancing beads for them to balance it. So, back to the bead breaker and tire irons to vacuum out the beads. The guys at the shop were great, came back with the tire in 10 min and said it was only one half once out of balance, BUT it was out of round. Well I guess I have my culprit. Now it's off with the tire again, then to UPS, and ship back to J&P cycles for exchange. I hope a defective tire is rare, but I guess it happens. When I get the new tire in a couple of weeks, I'll post the results as the saga continues. Meanwhile, I guess I'm grounded to 4 wheels.

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Re: New tires, balancing beads, front end bouncing

Postby robb » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:43 am

The shop I use found that the tire will still spin balance with beads installed. A digital spin balance will have beads in place in less than 5 seconds and if additional weight is needed it will show where to place them.
I also use airsoft pellets in anything I'm not planing on running under 100 mph and have not lost beads to damage. My last E3 used on front was out of round but 5 oz beads did the trick.




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