Vibration problem


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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Uncle Fester
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Motorcycle: 1996 GL-1500 Cali model 'Wing, blue in color, named Ol'Blue

Vibration problem

Postby Uncle Fester » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:54 am



As the title says, I am having a vibration problem with my 1996 GL1500 Aspencade. I had this problem once before, and THOUGHT I had it fixed, but maybe not.

The original problem was when traveling at 70mph or faster, if I let off the throttle enough to do compression slowing down/braking I could feel a vibration in the seat of the bike ( not through the bars)that went away once below 65ish mph. It was never a real bad vibration, just enough to let you know it was there and annoy you.

I had the tires replaced as they needed it, and had the U-Joint replaced also as I had found others here who described the same kind of issue and that was the cure. I have not traveled above 70mph sense then, so I have not noticed if the problem was still there and had increased or decreased or what.

Well Saturday I took the wife on her first long ride (400 miles) and while on the interstate, we where passed by a group of bikes, so I sped up and joined the pack ( safety in numbers ), when they started going faster than I was willing I let off the throttle and there was the damn vibration again, but much worse (we where going 90 at the time), so I gave the throttle a light amount of pressure, enough to allow us to slow down with out just closing the throttle. No more vibration and we slowed down to 65mph. I decided to test things a bit and sped back up to 75mph, went off throttle and there was the vibration, so I squeezed the clutch to eliminate the throttle, still there, applied light throttle and still slowed down, vibration gone. I sped back up to 85mph this time and did the same things, the vibration was even worse.

So to recap, above 70 mph or so, if I close down the throttle to compression brake, I get a vibration that gets worse the faster I am going when I let off the throttle. The vibration is also there when I squeeze the clutch in at those same speeds, but if I only slightly close the throttle, no vibrations. I have replaced the U-Joint, clutch and tires at the beginning of the riding season this year, so I do not think those are the issue, but then again. . .

Any ideas out there ? Coming back from Tulsa to Oklahoma City that night, ran 75-80 with no issues, but never tried to compression brake or squeeze in the clutch at speed, so not sure if that helps or not.


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CrystalPistol
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Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200A
1997 GL1500SE Lehman Trike

Re: Vibration problem

Postby CrystalPistol » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:18 am

Loose U-joint at rear of engine / front of drive shaft will do that under coast / no load conditions (load tends to center a worn joint sometimes). Either the joint itself is loose from wear or there's excessive wear in the splines. Of the two, I'd normally bet on a dry joint worn out .... but I see you have a new U-joint.

Something else .... maybe 5-6 years ago my '97 GL1500 started that vibe on a ride and I figured a U-joint so I turned around and headed home. Pulled shaft, front U-joint was not sloppy loose ... but it was looser than I recalled so I ordered a new Honda OEM joint. I received the updated part .... a Valkyrie U-joint. The cross was the same, the yokes were heavier. I installed it in proper phase. Went on a ride .... vibration was worse now.

I go back home, pull shaft, rear U-joint is near perfect, front is brand new .... why vibrate .... close examine of that Honda Valkyrie U-joint.

Suddenly looked like when the bearing cups were pressed in and staked into position, they got it a hair off center in the front yoke.

Pull out micrometer .... yep, one cap was in deeper than other when measured from machined surface of yoke. Itook a proper sized socket that missed the stakes and seated on the cap and with a few taps of a hammer, moved the cross in that yoke .... maybe 1/32" back to the center. There was enough room between stakes and deepest cap that it moved back. The staking is a safety thing .... the stakes do not locate the caps .... friction fit does.

Put shaft back in trike with joints in proper phase .... smooth as silk.
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MikeB
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Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: 1998 - GL1500 Aspencade.
2003 - GL1800A

Re: Vibration problem

Postby MikeB » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:45 pm

The vibration can also be caused by worn aluminum bushings and rear wheel rubber dampeners. The rubber can wear and compress and the aluminum can be worn and get oblong.

The aluminum bushings are part number 41242-MR5-000. The individual bushings are $10.57 each from Partzilla.
The rubber dampers are part number 41241-MT8-003. The individual dampers are $15.38 each from Partzilla.
I'd buy them in a set if I needed them. The set price is a lot cheaper. I have no idea why the prices are so goofy.
A set of five dampers is part number 06410-MZ0-A00. The set sells for $30.32 from Partzilla.

Anyway, take a look at the fit of the drive flange and the wheel bushings and dampers. The fit should be tight slip fit.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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Uncle Fester
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Motorcycle: 1996 GL-1500 Cali model 'Wing, blue in color, named Ol'Blue

Re: Vibration problem

Postby Uncle Fester » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:23 pm

I will look into these things over the week, if the weather permits. been hot as hell here in OKC the last few weeks. Plus this is my ONLY vehicle right now, so down time is not allowed. Until I can look at it better, I will stay below 65, and actually stay on the surface streets for the most part, keeping me out of the vibration speeds.

Oh, what are these ALUMINUM bushings you spoke of ? When I had the tires done, the rubbers where in good shape according to the mechanic, but he never said anything one way or the other about aluminum bushings. . . . .
Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Our stress about it happens when the two aren't the same. Be true to yourself and to hell with what everyone else thinks!

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MikeB
Posts: 1226
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Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: 1998 - GL1500 Aspencade.
2003 - GL1800A

Re: Vibration problem

Postby MikeB » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:52 pm

Looking at the picture below form another of WingAdmin's excellent How-To articles, you can see the aluminum bushings in the rubber dampers -
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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Wingsconsin
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Motorcycle: 2002 GL1800 - Pearl Orange
1996 GL1500 Aspencade - Pearl Blue
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Re: Vibration problem

Postby Wingsconsin » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:18 pm

I had a similar vibration in my '96 when I had it.
I changed the rubber dampeners in the rear wheel and it seemed to have gone away.
I re-used the aluminum sleeves as they looked nearly new to me...that was at about 125,000 miles.
I sold the old gal at near 131,000 so my test ride after the fix was short.
But I am sure that bike is still running fine -- it's an easy thing to do once the wheel is off and not terribly expensive.
Give it a try ;)
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Your results may vary. Universal disclaimers apply.


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OldZX11Rider
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Motorcycle: 1994 Honda GL1500 Goldwing SE

Re: Vibration problem

Postby OldZX11Rider » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:11 pm

I've also felt a vibration when I let off the throttle at interstate speed. However it only lasts for an instant as I go from a steady speed to deceleration.
I had not thought about the rubber bushings inside the rear wheel. I was suspecting the u-joint in the drive shaft.
For the time being, I avoid interstates as much as I can. :lol:
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CrystalPistol
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200A
1997 GL1500SE Lehman Trike

Re: Vibration problem

Postby CrystalPistol » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:07 pm

I can not now edit my prior post in this thread ....
CrystalPistol wrote: Loose U-joint at rear of engine / front of drive shaft will do that under coast / no load conditions [b]... etc ...
....
.... but I just found a write up on my "experience" back in maybe 2010 in which I found that a replacement U-joint was manufactured off center and it was more than the 1/32" I indicated in that post above .... it was actually 0.065" which is nearer 1/16". In the interest of accuracy, I post it here now .... even though this was actually a few years ago.

CrystalPistol wrote:A while back we headed out one day for a group ride and it was one of the few where we got on the interstate and as we had a good ways to go, we kicked it up to 65 - 70. It's not often that I cruise this trike at speeds above 65, I just avoid Interstates.

I noticed a vibration through the pegs that I didn't recall there before, it went away with power or coast, but as I rolled back and forth on the throttle it was worst when there was no load on the joint at all like when the throttle was just enough to match rpm to speed. When I speeded up more, it was noticeably worse ... but not bad, just enough to be noticed. I suspected a U-joint as they'll do that as power or load tends to center them and they flop when unloaded sometimes thus swinging the driveshaft like a jump rope.

I left the ride and went home at 55 or less on old road, not bad now, and I pulled the shaft at home. Rear car size U-joint was tight, as expected it being bigger and getting regular greasings.

Front Honda U-joint which was original and seemed OK, maybe a little easy to flop around, but no slack in joint. I thought maybe the splines were worn but could see no wear on either motor output shaft splines or drive shaft splines even with magnifying glass.

I ordered a Valkyrie U-joint, it's the one Honda ships for all 1500s now. It came in a few days later and I slipped the shaft back out and put the new front U-joint in with plenty of grease on the splines making sure that the front and rear joints were in proper phase.

Took it for a ride, it was as bad if not worse! Damn it!

Well, a few nights ago I was going over the trike for a couple rides coming up, I wasn't sleepy, and I had her jacked up putting grease in the rear joint and adjusting the rear drum brakes and I decided to take another look at that Honda Valkyrie U-joint. Well, I pulled the shaft and joint, wiped the joint clean of excess grease, and checked the fit on the splines, no appreciable slack.

Then as I rotated the joint looking and wondering why the hell I have this persistant vibration, I noticed something. It looked like the joint cross wasn't centered just right in the front yoke, the rear yoke looked like it was a hair out to one side. The surfaces of the yokes at widest point is machined, so I got the idea to measure the depth at each of the 4 bearing cups from this surface. The cups in the rear half of the joint were very nearly the same, maybe a hair difference, but certainly within a few thousandths of being the same.

The cups in the front yoke, the yoke half that slips up on the motor output shaft, ...
... weren't close. 65 thousandths difference between the two. The cross was not centered in the yoke! Manufacturer's defect. These cups are pressed in and staked. The staking points on the side where the bearing cup was pressed deepest didn't go all the way to the cup, so I figured I didn't need to cut them out ... there was room to move it.

Well, I looked through sockets and found one that fit inside the yoke and was against the stake points with out it being on top of them, this socket was a 12mm HD for use with air wrenches I think. Inserted in behind the bearing cup, it would contact the cup at the outer edge without flatening the center hump flattening it, and it would go inside the stake point circle. Using this socket and a hammer and measuring after every whack, I finally drove that cross back to center point between the yokes, I even centered up the two cups on the rear half of the yoke as they were a few thou out. When done, the cross was centered as near perfectly between the yokes as was possible to measure with my tools. I had moved the joint 30+ thousandths in the one yoke back to center.

These cups are tight in the bores, the stake points were just for safe measure I guess.

Anyway, put it back together with more good grease in the splines and in phase and we took her for a ride. Took it out for ice cream and hit a section if interstate between two exits out west where there's no traffic and run it up faster than I will say .... and the vibration is gone! Finally!


Maybe there is something there for someone here? :)
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Uncle Fester
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bethany, Ok, right off Route 66 !
Motorcycle: 1996 GL-1500 Cali model 'Wing, blue in color, named Ol'Blue

Re: Vibration problem

Postby Uncle Fester » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:34 am

Thanks for posting that, I will have to give the u-joint a look once it cools down some. . . . 95* days and no garage or carport sucks ! LOL I may take it back to my mechanic who did the job and see if this is covered by any kind of warranty


Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Our stress about it happens when the two aren't the same. Be true to yourself and to hell with what everyone else thinks!

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