1998 GL1500 SE kill switch not working and starter not disengaging


Information and questions on GL1500 Goldwings (1988-2000)
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ajh1155
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:12 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Motorcycle: 1998 GL1500 SE (50th Anniversary)

1998 GL1500 SE kill switch not working and starter not disengaging

Postby ajh1155 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:29 am



Hi, new to me 1998 GL1500 SE 50th Anniversary and new to this forum.

Sorry long post...hopefully explained what is going on well enough for someone with more experience to comment.

Bike was imported to Australia in 2000 by previous owner from new in Ohio and 16 years later he sold it to me. I had a few days and about 2000 kilometres terrific riding bring it home (under twin Harley escorts...!) What a comfortable mile muncher the Goldwing is compared to my same vintage Vmax.

The state I live in is a bit more pedantic about compliancing of personal import vehicles than where the PO lives/d in our eastern states so I need to front for a roadworthy. I had (I thought...!) just two items to attend to...remove amber running lights at front (we can only have white) and make the kill switch operational. The lights were an easy swap out to single filament globes (had to grind away a couple of lugs from the globes)...all good using the excellent "How to..." from this site. Then the fun started...

1. Kill switch...
1.1 Removed and checked the switch...was good but cleaned and lubricated it anyway.
1.2 Tested voltage at the terminals...BLK-LT GRN about 1 volt less than at battery and BLK-WHT about 3 volts less than at battery...I expected the second one to be zero. So little wonder it doesn't work.
1.3 Removed the #6 relay...at kill switch BLK-LT GRN about 0.1 volt and BLK-WHT same as before about 3 volts less than at battery.
1.4 Swapped the #6 relay for another...all good...bike starts and runs...kill switch does nothing. Swapped them back.
1.5 Dismantled the RHS of the bike and after some robust discussion with the ECM harness I managed to disconnect it from the ECM.
1.6 Checked plug and socket...both clean, no bent pins...sprayed them with contact cleaner anyway.
1.7 Volts at pin #4 as per the workshop manual tested at about 1 volt less than at battery...PASS.
1.8 And tested volts at the terminals to the kill switch again...BLK-LT GRN about 0.1 volts and BLK-WHT about battery voltage.
1.9 Put it all back together...no change. So conclusion...ECM is feeding power back out of pin #4. Is/can this be correct? I read the circuit diagram to send power to the coils and ECM through pin #4 via the kill switch.

2. Starter won't disengage...
2.2 While I was diagnosing above I started and restarted the bike often. After a while the starter running on thing happened...a bit ugly...bike went for a walk...minor cosmetic damage only as it did not get far in my crowded shed space.
2.3 I completely dismantled the starter switch...all looked good in there...cleaned and lubricated it anyway. Put it back together
2.4 I disconnected both starter relays A & B...they did not stick under test independent of the bike's wiring.
2.5 Conclusion...low voltage plays havoc with the starter (or other) relays causing them not to engage properly and so they jam themselves up...high battery voltage again and all is good. Not sure how they become unstuck...I did bash the B relay some.

Welcome your learned thoughts.

Cheers
Fred


Cheers, Fred
1998 GL1500 SE 50th Anniversary

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Aussie81Interstate
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Re: 1998 GL1500 SE kill switch not working and starter not disengaging

Postby Aussie81Interstate » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:53 am

Fred,

I don't know the answer to your problem - so just posted here to keep track of the suggestions. I have not been that far into my harness or to check my kill switch at this time. I would have thought the kill switch was a pretty simple circuit to chop power to the coils. Fingers crossed one of the gurus will be along shortly to srt it out for you.

cheers

Charlie in NSW

ajh1155
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:12 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Motorcycle: 1998 GL1500 SE (50th Anniversary)

Re: 1998 GL1500 SE kill switch not working and starter not disengaging

Postby ajh1155 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:45 pm

More info...

Voltage was measured at ends of wires to kill switch without the switch in place... With the ECM connected 9-10 volts at BLK-LT GRN, without ECM connected about 0.1 volts. That's why I suspect there is power feeding back out through pin 4. Bike starts and runs without the kill switch in place. And were the switch bypassed somewhere I would expect battery volts at both these wires with the ECM disconnected.

I've since pulled the reverse diode pack out...no start with that disconnected...so I suspect it is not the cause of the feedback through the ECM.

EDIT: Sorry everyone...I didn't make it clear above...bike runs with the kill switch removed. Power at the BLK-LT GRN wire (kill switch removed) suggests the kill switch has been bypassed...however when the ECM is disconnected that power is gone and bike will not start/run. To me it follows from the circuit diagram that then there is also no power to the coils...so no bypass has been made...so when connected the ECM is powering the coils (and back feeding the kill switch).
Cheers, Fred
1998 GL1500 SE 50th Anniversary

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Re: 1998 GL1500 SE kill switch not working and starter not disengaging

Postby bstig60 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:58 pm

There is a short somewhere. The kill switch should kill the power to the ignition system. I will dig into my factory wiring diagrams and see if I can come up with something.
Bill

ajh1155
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Motorcycle: 1998 GL1500 SE (50th Anniversary)

Re: 1998 GL1500 SE kill switch not working and starter not disengaging

Postby ajh1155 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:50 am

A bit more history on the bike. One owner from new who was not mechanically minded...he says all work done by dealers.


All of the loom on the RHS of the bike looks un-tampered with. I can't imagine anyone fitting any bypass would make the loom back to OEM standard.


I pulled the C57 connector apart...very greasy. Wasn't game to try and pry the BLK/WHT pin out. Might be easier if I take the upper right fairing off as well...not going there yet. While there checked continuity up to the kill switch...good. Good fun plugging that connector back together...!


Fuel pump runs continuously with ignition on...no obvious bypass to power the fuel pump.


I traced the BLK/WHT from the C54 connector back towards the ECM & the kill switch electronically only...as above loom has not been tampered with I don't want to unravel it just yet...checked up the handlebar as well...no dodgy wiring in sight. Continuity good...only power there when C49 is plugged into the ECM and ignition is on. Also fuel pump doesn't run with C49 unplugged from the ECM and ignition on.


For now I plan to wire the existing kill switch into the BLK/WHT on the coils side of C54. That should get the bike through roadworthy and registered. Then at least I can ride it (to mechanics if necessary) while I ponder/diagnose further what I still feel is an ECM problem...two problems...back feed of power to BLK/WHT out of pin 4 and continuous running of fuel pump.


Does anyone know if you can still buy new ECMs? Can't find anything but used ones online and Honda Australia aren't helpful as its an import...argh. VIN is 1HFSC2230WA000401.
Cheers, Fred
1998 GL1500 SE 50th Anniversary

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Bluewaterhooker0
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Re: 1998 GL1500 SE kill switch not working and starter not disengaging

Postby Bluewaterhooker0 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:24 am

Just a couple of thoughts. The Blk/White wire from the ECM is also connected to the Cruise system, and the ignition coils, so there are other sources for your backfeed than just the ECM.

A starter relay that has stuck once, will almost certainly stick again. The internal contacts are burned, possibly from running a low voltage battery to start, or maybe just from old age. Starting with low voltage causes the start motor to draw higher than normal amps, taking a toll on the relay. But it should be replaced. I forget which one is the culprit. I think it's the 'B' relay, but some searching on these pages should verify the correct answer.

ajh1155
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:12 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Motorcycle: 1998 GL1500 SE (50th Anniversary)

Re: 1998 GL1500 SE kill switch not working and starter not disengaging

Postby ajh1155 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:30 am

Thanks Bluewater...

I've perused the circuit diagrams but can't see where the BLK/WHT feeds the cruise. Looks to me power for the cruise comes from the ECM.

Didn't spend much time on it as I've worked around the problem for now. I made a "splice" of sorts at connector C54 which feeds the coils and wired the kill switch into there. Took the bike for it's roadworthy and they never even checked for an operational kill switch...! I will now wire it to a separate switch for kill as things got a bit crowded in the switch cluster on the right handlebar. Couple of pictures here...

C54 to ignition coils
C54 to ignition coils

C54 to ignition coils "spliced" to kill switch
C54 to ignition coils "spliced" to kill switch


Now at last I can ride the bike while I consider further why there is power at BLK/WHT with the kill switch off, why the fuel pump runs continuously and a new one...when I connect the battery I hear a noise like the cruise making a minor adjustment (might eventually lead me to your comment).

I intend to replace the starting relays A & B.


Cheers, Fred
1998 GL1500 SE 50th Anniversary


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