Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating


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chads920
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Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby chads920 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:31 pm



the wife noticed it first, go figure.. I of course said its nothing (didn't smell anything) later when getting ready for the trip to Wing Ding, seat and plastic off, i notice what seemed to be a cut in the electrical tape along the length of the wiring bundle that courses along the frame. I mentioned it to my mechanic when I had the bike in for a carb sync. While cranking the engine over to do the compression check we notice smoke and upon further investigation and another cylinder check we found that a wire had melted through its covering and in another loc burnt through leaving fried isolation and parted wire.
Now this all took place while cranking the engine for an extended period (the wife must have smelled the burning while I was backing up). One of the wires runs to the sm white connector on the top of the fuel pump (burnt through) and the other runs to the side of the fuel tank, both seem to be sensor connections. I took the pump out and all seems fine.
Now why would there be enough Amperage to over heat this wire?? I isolated the two wires and rewired and rerouted the two legs putting an in line fuse in the leg to the side of the tank leaving the other, to the top of the fuel tank (short leg) without a fuse. I cranked the engine and had the immediate effect of over heating the short leg and blowing the fuse in the longer leg.
What the heck I said out loud.. where is this load coming from??
I ended my frustration by disconnecting the leg to the pump and put in a new 2A fuse. The bike starts and all the gauges seem normal but I am still in the dark as to where the high Amps are coming from and why that wire. That wire is Blue with white markings and there are many. the short leg originates/terminates at a multi pin connector, orange in colour located on the right side (wrapped in tape along with the wire bundle) in the general area of the starter. I took it apart and can find no burnt connectors.
Anyone have any idea what may be the issue here, I an somewhat concerned as the wife and I are planning to leave on the 26 th Aug for Wing ding and I don't want to be stranded ….


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chads920
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:14 am
Location: Keremeos BC Canada, Arizona City AZ (winter)
Motorcycle: 93 1500A Gold Wing - Champion Trike
03 Yamaha RSV (sold)
89 Yamaha VR
90 Bunkhouse tent trailer (sold)
2016 Bunkhouse - Queen

Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby chads920 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:33 pm

ok this is not good, this morning i was about to leave for a trip to Merritt i backed out (pushing not using reverse) with the bike warming up, I closed the choke in prep to go and the bike quits. Tried to restart and nothing..
My buddy helped me push the bike into my shade area it was forecast to reached 36 C today, and I again removed the fairing to expose my wiring harness. I traced, by opening the complete wiring bundle, all the wire and found nada. What I did discover is that the wire that had melted through its shielding was connected to a GREEN heavey wire along with multi other GRN with White bar wire (4 splice areas).
I can't figure where this ground wire is getting its charge. This only happens when starting -- I thought. This morning when the bike was running I noticed that I had no fuel gauge?? When it quit it had blown the 2 amp fuse that I installed in the bypass line to the left side of the fuel tank.
After many frustrating hours of investigation I went to NAPA and bought a new fuse holder so that I could up the fuse (to 5 amp) in the bypass wire that I installed to the the sensor on the left side of the fuel tank.
I'm going to Kamloops to the meet and greet/pre Wing Ding meeting with a buddy tomorrow at 0530 hrs I hope that I don't have any problems.
I could use some help here if anyone has any inkling as to what gremlin is at work in my wiring sys.
Sometimes your find yourself on a lonely open road, sometimes on a open road you find yourself.
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MikeB
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby MikeB » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:15 pm

Not being there I can not troubleshoot for you but I can tell you this, if you ride the bike the way it is, I am certain that it will strand you at best.
I recommend having it looked at by someone that can diagnose the problem before you trust it on a trip of any kind.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

chads920
Posts: 37
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby chads920 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:12 pm

I'm hoping to make it to Wing Ding with the thought that there may be an opportunity to have someone there look at it. I don't have a good understanding of what mechanical is available at Wing Ding as its my first but…
I've put about 500 miles on since doing the work around and all seem good. Its about 350 miles to our border crossing then to Great Falls Saturday. Is there a good mechanic there..
Sometimes your find yourself on a lonely open road, sometimes on a open road you find yourself.
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tylers883
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby tylers883 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:06 am

high current comes from:
1- a wire than has been shorted to ground( if the wire goes to a pump or sensor, it will still be a high current failure even if the pump or sensor doesn't draw current when it is working.)
2 - a defective switch, sensor, or what have you that has failed in a way that it is causing a short. see item 1.
3 - a high voltage ( ie 22volts where there should be 12V, or 12Volts where the should be 0-12V.) This is Ohm's law at play.
4 - a stalled dc motor causes a high current, but only on it's related wires( ie a stalled starter motor will not produce high current on a pump)

also, keep in mind that when you are 'cranking', your entire ignition system is ON, so consider the possibility that the cranking has nothing to do with your problem.

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tylers883
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby tylers883 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:15 am

in order for your work around to be working for you. You have either bypassed the short with a new wire, or you have replaced or disconnected the defective device that is responsible for the high current.

If you feel that you have done this then I would risk the statement that you are ok to drive around.

However, if you don't feel like you've done this, then your work around may have coincided with an unknown fix. you may be running on borrowed time.

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tylers883
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby tylers883 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:26 am

a melted wire on a fuse-protected circuit is an interesting case...in general, it should not happen, because a high current failure should blow your fuse BEFORE the wire melts.

Your melted wire without a blown fuse implies that you had a high current failure that wasn't as simple as shorting something to ground.

Examples of this are:

- a pinched wire that sporadically shorts to ground when the pinching part( a seat, or loose bracket) vibrates or moves.
- a failed device with a corroded contact( ie the device has become a short, but the corrosion exists as a form of resistance that prevents a high current)

chads920
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:14 am
Location: Keremeos BC Canada, Arizona City AZ (winter)
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2016 Bunkhouse - Queen

Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby chads920 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:53 pm

I know its a head scratcher at best. The overheating or burning happens when the starter is engaged. The more cranking the greater the likely hood of a failure. I elimiated one leg all together (that wire that connects to the top of the fuel tank between the two wires suppling power to the pump) but have to keep the wire to the sensor on the left side of the tank. I have opened up the wiring bundle except where it is incased by a fabric boot which runs under the frame and ran my hands through the wiring. I've checked for contact where there shouldn't be any and etc. Since puting things back in there place the ply issue I have now is that the cruise control set switch is not working.
Sometimes your find yourself on a lonely open road, sometimes on a open road you find yourself.
BBM - PIN 24DF1560
Member of the Royal Canadian Legion Br. 192, Legion Rider Unit member

chads920
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:14 am
Location: Keremeos BC Canada, Arizona City AZ (winter)
Motorcycle: 93 1500A Gold Wing - Champion Trike
03 Yamaha RSV (sold)
89 Yamaha VR
90 Bunkhouse tent trailer (sold)
2016 Bunkhouse - Queen

Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby chads920 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:00 pm

Tyler I'm thinking a sensor is N/S not that I know that but with me it's a process of trial and error + elimination not very professional but I have had some successes
Sometimes your find yourself on a lonely open road, sometimes on a open road you find yourself.
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FM-USA
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby FM-USA » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:08 am

chads920 wrote:Tyler I'm thinking a sensor is N/S not that I know that but with me it's a process of trial and error + elimination not very professional but I have had some successes


Any update[s]?
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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RBGERSON
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby RBGERSON » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:39 am

OK disclaimer I am not a elec. guru..but sure sounds like a bad ground connection in that circuit..I'd remove/clean/tighten the ground connections for that circuit. follow the green wires to the frame/engine whatever. Heat builds up when the juice can't get through the circuit..corroded wires,bad connections, etc.
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
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RB

chads920
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:14 am
Location: Keremeos BC Canada, Arizona City AZ (winter)
Motorcycle: 93 1500A Gold Wing - Champion Trike
03 Yamaha RSV (sold)
89 Yamaha VR
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2016 Bunkhouse - Queen

Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby chads920 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:22 pm

well I've made the trip to Billings and back with no further electrical issues. The cruse control issue was a stuck foot brake switch and ice I freed it up with a little spray the cruse worked fine. I will continue to investigate and the "ground fault" suggestion will be my focus. Thanks!
Sometimes your find yourself on a lonely open road, sometimes on a open road you find yourself.
BBM - PIN 24DF1560
Member of the Royal Canadian Legion Br. 192, Legion Rider Unit member

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MikeB
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby MikeB » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:34 pm

Good to hear you made it there and back, so did we, eight of us on five different GL1800's. A little under 1800 miles round trip.

Hopefilly you will find the gremlin that is causing your issue.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

chads920
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:14 am
Location: Keremeos BC Canada, Arizona City AZ (winter)
Motorcycle: 93 1500A Gold Wing - Champion Trike
03 Yamaha RSV (sold)
89 Yamaha VR
90 Bunkhouse tent trailer (sold)
2016 Bunkhouse - Queen

Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby chads920 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:55 am

lovely ride in the RAIN.. we made it to Butte MT and had enough rain and cold weather staying in the Comfort Inn to warm up. When we left Butte it was 37 F and there was a threat of freezing rain (which didn't happen thank goodness) still rainy though. The weather did improve and it did warm up and we made it to Euphrata WA for our overnight. Cathy and I were able to setup and sleep in our new Bunkhouse trailer.. very happy with that purchase as it replaced our 1990 Bunkhouse unit giving us a much more comfortable sleep and change area. We enjoyed our first Wing Ding having met lots of great fellow enthusiasts. I hope all who travelled got home safe and sound (and not to wet).
Sometimes your find yourself on a lonely open road, sometimes on a open road you find yourself.
BBM - PIN 24DF1560
Member of the Royal Canadian Legion Br. 192, Legion Rider Unit member

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MikeB
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby MikeB » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:03 am

We left Sunday morning and rode to St. Regis, MT for the night. Rained half the day and was clear in St. Regis for the evening.
The next morning it was raining and it rained through half of Idaho and then was clear the rest of the way to Seattle.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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FM-USA
Posts: 1992
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 8:40 am
Location: USA-ILL-60085
Motorcycle: .
'91 GL1500-I (Dbl-Darkside)
Acquired:__51K_Jun_??/2007
MADE_IT!_200K_Oct_17/2016
iRide 24/365 99% SmileMiles
================
"You don't buy yourself a
HD to be SATISFIED,...
you buy it to keep your
HD friends PACIFIED."
================
|
ANTAGONISTS need not post.
|
==================

Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby FM-USA » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:29 am

MikeB wrote:We left Sunday morning and rode to St. Regis, MT for the night. Rained half the day and was clear in St. Regis for the evening.
The next morning it was raining and it rained through half of Idaho and then was clear the rest of the way to Seattle.

Encounter any rats, cats, coyotes, wolves, bears, zebras, giraffes, elephants or jack-a-lopes?
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

User avatar
tylers883
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 11:04 am
Location: Halifax, NS Canada
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Re: Whats that Smell. electrical wire over heating

Postby tylers883 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:04 pm

It is good to hear that your bike is working well for you.

Also, thanks for bringing back memories of riding in Montana.

I made a trip through Montana about 10 years ago. The 'highway to the sun' road in Glacier National Park easily makes my short list of most memorable rides. There's something about being on a road cut into the side of a mountain with thousands of feet of high wall AND low wall that really makes the trip incredible.




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