Slipping out of gear


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Corkster52
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Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:55 pm



I have been having an intermittent issue of my 99 Aspencade slipping out of gear issue that I only observed a couple of times before today. Since that time, I have been paying special attention to making sure I do a solid shift in all gears. What I discovered today is that if I gradually accelerate in each of the gears there is no slippage, but if I "get on" the throttle in any gear but 1st (didn't try 1st too many times", I can make it slip with every aggressive twist of the wrist. I did it about 30 times or so on an hour long ride today, and it was consistent every time I tried it I recently replaced the bushing in the clutch lever and had not noticed this issue before that. My suspicion is that the PO put some kind of aftermarket parts in the clutch master cylinder, so the push rod may be slightly longer than it really should be. I have a new rod ordered. Does anyone else have any experience, thoughts or suggestions with this issue? Thanks.



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Bluewaterhooker0
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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:28 am

I assume you are talking about clutch slippage based on your description. Not jumping out of gear.
A lot of folks have posted similar problems, and I understand worn out clutch plates are rare. What is common, is to have a clogged clutch fluid return hole in the master cylinder.
It's a little hole located under a tiny plate in the MC reservoir. There are 2 holes. One sucks fluid in, the other covered hole, returns fluid. If it plugs up, the clutch pressure stays high, just as you describe. Pull up that little plate, exposing the hole, and try cleaning it out with a very fine wire from a wire brush, welding torch tip cleaner, steel guitar string, etc. It may blow fluid in your face if that's the issue and you are staring into the reservoir. Dont do that.
You could also open the clutch bleed screw to check for pressure when you are sitting still. If that verifies your issue, you still need to clear the obstructed hole in the reservoir.
If this solves your problem, you then need to flush the whole system, cleaning out the gunk in the bottom of the reservoir first. Flushing all the brakes would also be a good idea, if you haven't already. Also, clean the bottoms of all the reservoirs. I flush all 3 of them about every 2 years. It's amazing, the difference in the color and clarity of the 2 year old fluid, compared to the new. It's all DOT 4 fluid.

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Corkster52
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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:31 am

What is common, is to have a clogged clutch fluid return hole in the master cylinder.
Thanks for the response, but while I was having brake pads replaced in a local shop last week, the mechanic noticed the clutch issue too and cleared the return hole thinking that might resolve the issue. I lost the clutch entirely a week prior and the return hole was in fact plugged. I cleared the hole, cleaned the master cylinder reservoir (that had a lot of brown stuff in the bottom of it), flushed through the system with new fluid and refilled. If getting and installing the new pushrod does not resolve the problem, I will probably go to rebuilding the slave cylinder next.

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by dingdong » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:38 am

Sounds like you may have a problem in the slave cylinder if you have cleaned everything at the master. Just bleeding and new fluid won't help as long as all the gunk is still in the slave. They can get really nasty with thick muck.


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Corkster52
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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:50 am

Sounds like you may have a problem in the slave cylinder if you have cleaned everything at the master
Okay, even if the replacement of the pushrod resolves the the issue for now, I really should do the rebuild on the slave as basic good maintenance. I will order the individual parts (or a kit) immediately to rebuild it. There was one unanswered post question a few days ago in another thread about the oil seal...
So what is the secret to removing the oil seal? Mine was bad too, but now it is really tore up from trying to get it out and after an hour or more, I don't think I have begun to move it
Before I get that far, it would be nice to see the response.

Thanks
Corky

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by f1xrupr » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:04 am

Just a thought-incorrect engine oil or to much Lucas can cause that...
My exercise bike is a goldwing.

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Corkster52
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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:20 am

Just a thought-incorrect engine oil or to much Lucas can cause that...
"Lucas"?

Engine oil has not changed since before it occurred, but it Castrol 20W50

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by spiralout » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:10 pm

Corkster52 wrote:
Sounds like you may have a problem in the slave cylinder if you have cleaned everything at the master
Okay, even if the replacement of the pushrod resolves the the issue for now, I really should do the rebuild on the slave as basic good maintenance. I will order the individual parts (or a kit) immediately to rebuild it.
Good idea since you'll have it in your hand, anyway.
Corkster52 wrote:
There was one unanswered post question a few days ago in another thread about the oil seal...
So what is the secret to removing the oil seal? Mine was bad too, but now it is really tore up from trying to get it out and after an hour or more, I don't think I have begun to move it
Before I get that far, it would be nice to see the response.

Thanks
Corky
I had to fight mine. I tried a hooked pick, threading a bolt in to it, prying with a screwdriver, etc. Everything I tried just tore it up more. I guess I ended up cursing it enough it finally fell out. Some people say that they pop right out but mine didn't either.

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:28 pm

Someone in one of the threads I was searching through said to use a needle-nosed Vise-Grips. Got a 4" long one ordered. After having been retired now for almost 5 months, with select few people to spout expletives at, I have plenty of them ready.

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:08 pm

I've ordered all of the parts that make sense from the drawing in Partzilla, but someone on another site said he needed to replace the long pin that goes between the 2 seals, but I don't see it anywhere on the drawing. It is the piece second from the right on the old thread pic that is attached. Anyone know a part number for it?
Attachments

torn down slave
torn down slave


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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by spiralout » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:25 am

The rod is #14 here. I just flipped mine around so that a different section of it was sliding through the seal.

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Corkster52
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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:37 am

Postby spiralout » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:25 am

The rod is #14 here. I just flipped mine around so that a different section of it was sliding through the seal.
Thanks, I will try to stop them from shipping the order I placed yesterday until this part is added. If they can't I will probably do the same thing you did.I really hate paying as much for the shipping as I do for a single part unless it is absolutely necessary.

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by spiralout » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:53 am

If you can't get the order changed in time, you can always grab one at the dealer in Toledo for no shipping cost.

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:33 am

Postby spiralout » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:53 am

If you can't get the order changed in time, you can always grab one at the dealer in Toledo for no shipping cost
Great idea! I sent them an email last night asking is they had parts for the slave cylinder, but have not gotten a response yet. I will give them a call when they open.

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:44 am

Nope, they don't have it in stock here in Toledo :(

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:40 pm

Got all set to order the rod from Partzilla....not available

22851-MN5-000 ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER
Price:$12.89
Not Available
Overview
22851-MN5-000 ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER
Description
Purchase this Honda 22851-MN5-000 ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER --- ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER (Honda Code 2804730
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/h ... 5-000.html

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:56 pm

Corkster52 wrote:Got all set to order the rod from Partzilla....not available

22851-MN5-000 ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER
Price:$12.89
Not Available
Overview
22851-MN5-000 ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER
Description
Purchase this Honda 22851-MN5-000 ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER --- ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER (Honda Code 2804730
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/h ... 5-000.html
Are you sure you looked at the correct part number.
This is what I came up with for that part under 1999 GL1500 A (Aspencade), with a slightly different part number, and it doesn't show as obsolete.
And, if I understand Honda's parts numbers, they are probably all essentially the same part anyway, when just the tail number changes.

14
ROD, CLUTCH LIFTER
22851-MN5-010
$12.89 List
$9.57 Sale

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by spiralout » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:07 pm

Just call your local Honda dealer and tell them you want one. It's not discontinued. They'll get you one.

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:08 pm

Grrrr.. I screw part numbers up so many times :oops:

$10 for the part and $8 for shipping. I'll find some more goodies before I order. Thanks for a good catch!

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by spiralout » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:52 pm

Corkster52 wrote:Grrrr.. I screw part numbers up so many times :oops:

$10 for the part and $8 for shipping. I'll find some more goodies before I order. Thanks for a good catch!
Or, like I said.....

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Corkster52
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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:26 pm

spiralout » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:07 pm

Just call your local Honda dealer and tell them you want one. It's not discontinued. They'll get you one
Good advice. Thanks

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:22 pm

Apparently my attention to even simple details is sorely lacking! :oops: What I had originally assumed as a problem with an aftermarket pushrod that did not mate to the correct depth on a newly installed bushing in the clutch lever, that later involved into an OMG my slave cylinder is in dire shape, turned out to be much simpler. After chasing parts for days, pleading with other members for help, and quite a few $$ later, I received a new pushrod to compare it to the old one. As soon as I popped the old one out I saw the problem. When I replaced the bushing a few weeks ago I did not pay attention to how I oriented the rounded and the square ends of the pushrod to make sure I reinstalled it the same way. Sheesh!!! As it turns out the new pushrod is .002" longer than the old one. Now, once I receive the new clutch lifter rod, I should have more than enough parts to rebuild the slave cylinder. Took the old girl for a ride and cranked the throttle as hard as I could going through the gears and no slippage whatsoever. Thank you all for your help. :oops:

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:32 am

That's one of those, "boy, am I a dumb ass / boy do I feel great" moments. Simultaneous disgust and joy. I can't put my finger on the moment, but I have already been down that path a few times. Glad you found it.
I can hear you eagerness to rebuild that slave clutch, and am recalling my own ambitions in the past, after having dodged a seemingly major bullet, only to dive into another project, related to the first, that then also went south. These days, I tend to adhere to the axiom, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", unless of course it is a standard maintenance item, or eminent failure is expected.
I'm sure other will offer a different opinion, and possibly a valid opinion. And it sounds like you are much too excited about renewing your clutch system to a like new status. I wish I could get that excited about such things these days. But, those feelings escape me in my later years. Good luck with the slave rebuild. Let us know how it goes. :-)

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by Corkster52 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:55 am

Bluewaterhooker0 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:32 am

These days, I tend to adhere to the axiom, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", unless of course it is a standard maintenance item, or eminent failure is expected
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I live, pretty much, by the same axiom, tempered with 20/20 hindsight on countless recollections of "Wish I woulda(s)". Now that I think of it, I have only had wreckers haul me home on occasions where foreseen failures occurred. Therefore, in this case, what I will most likely do is to put all of the parts for the slave cylinder rebuild in its own section of my parts stash and wait until it either rears its ugly head as a new issue or my alternator fails and presents the perfect time to do it while it is more easily accessible.

I have often been reminded of an old adage through the years that the only real failure in such circumstances is if nothing was learned from what happened. I sure do know a lot more about slave cylinders (and have a hundred pages or so of saved threads, how-tos and technical info :geek: ) than I did just a week ago.

Now, after putting back together a few cosmetic things I discovered while I was waiting for parts, I will be ready to ride! ;)

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Re: Slipping out of gear

Post by FM-USA » Mon May 01, 2017 9:47 am

Suggestion for all:
I have lots of extra white (paint splatted) shirts. I reuse them inside out by laying one on the table/ground. I also use the sleeves as quick finger wipes. But any old sheet or towel works also. Paper & cardboard don't absorb oil well.
When removing parts I lay them, in orientation order, as they come out. Once all parts are out either I make mental note or take a Phone Photo.
;)


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