89 Gl1500 no spark


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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:22 pm



I know your up for a quick test...
Meter attached to the green ground at the ignition module.Other lead...with the key and kill switch on..probe these 3 wires for 12 volts..
There on the white plug...Yellow/red..yellow/white and yellow blue.
They should have 12 volts dc.There the primary winding of the coils.Do not crank the bike.
I'll get another volts test asap to isolate your problem.
Do you have a analog volt meter or just the digital one?



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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:44 pm

virgilmobile wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:22 pm
I know your up for a quick test...
Meter attached to the green ground at the ignition module.Other lead...with the key and kill switch on..probe these 3 wires for 12 volts..
There on the white plug...Yellow/red..yellow/white and yellow blue.
They should have 12 volts dc.There the primary winding of the coils.Do not crank the bike.
I'll get another volts test asap to isolate your problem.
Do you have a analog volt meter or just the digital one?
Juat did the test, all 3 have power, i grounded both at the frame and at the green wire in the plug just to check redundantly. All i have is the digital meter.
I am keeping an auto maintinance charger going on the bike and i got 12.6 on all 3 wires
When all else fails.. Weld it

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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:58 pm

ok.that confirms that power is apparently getting from the black/white wire through the coils and back to the module..Now all it should need is the pulses from both pulse coils to start the process.I'll take my DVM (similar to your fluke) and run a live voltage test for the pulse coils.
This ignition system is very robust and (to my understanding) requires just 3 things to spark...Power to the coils ...power to the module and pulses from the crank on two pulse coils.You have eliminated 2 of 3 things.
I'm hoping that a wire by wire voltage reading for you to compare will show the fault area.
I am keeping in mind that this was a intermittent problem...rain related..and now has completly failed(actually a good thing).
I'll post with all the details asap.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:50 pm

All righty..
Here we go...My 88 may have a different set of plugs than yours but the color code should be exactly the same.I did note that the single brown wire shown in the 89 schematic is combined into my black plug...It actually has 8 wires rather than the 6 shown...
I'll add pictures in the next post.
Note that I referenced all my measurments to the green/black in the blue plug and confirmed that it is ground.
I'll group the wires as shown in the schematic.
all measurments taken with the key on..kill switch on...all lights on so the primary volts will be right near 12 volts...
White plug wires
white/red--11 vdc
black/white--12 vdc
yellow/white--11.5 vdc
yellow/blue--11.5 vdc
yellow/red--11.5 vdc
green--0.0 vdc zero

Red plug wires
red/white--11 vdc
green/orange--11 vdc
green/white--0.5 vdc
light green/red--0.0 vdc

Blue plug with 2 wires
green/black--0.0 vdc zero
pink/white--2.0 vdc

Black plug wires...
Orange--0.0 vdc
lt green--0.0 vdc
lt blue 0.0 vdc
white--0.0 vdc
white/blue 0.0 vdc---pulse coil wire
white/yellow--0.0 vdc--pulse coil wire.

Note: pulse coil resistance was measured between the blue plug (green/black) and each pulse coil wire...Each one measured 453Ohms.

Now the fun part...I know that "they" say DO NOT MEASURE THE MODULE...
Ok..maybe before the digital meter came along...an analog meter might damage a module....Your Fluke will work fine for what we need to know...
Heres the 2 tests..Ill post the video too..
The pulse coils...both of them....with your meter set to measure dc volts..probe the green/black wire and the white/blue pulse coil wire..Confirm its connected by switching your meter to OHMS...it should measure about 450 ohms...Switch it to dc volts..Turn on the key..kills switch on and crank the engine..Each pulse coil should generate about 0.5 to 0.6 volts dc..
Do test both pulse coils...The white/blue one too..It generates volts the same way.

The test for the coils...dont get nervious..it wont damage the meter...Probe one of the ignition wires...NO.... not at the spark plugs..TheYellow/white will do...Use the same ground as before...Turn on the key..as you saw,there should be near battery volts there...Crank the engine and watch the meter..If the coils are being pulsed the voltage will drop...Mine dropped to about 8 volts ...proof that the coil primary is being pulsed.


Now...what dosen't match up with mine???


ignition test


pulse coil test

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:45 pm

Ok, as the saying goes lol,,
DAMN VIRGIL, Thank you for going through the trouble to document it all for me it is Greatly appreciated
I will post the results as soon as i have them. Also are you testing the pulse gen at the plug in the fairing or at the ecu?
When all else fails.. Weld it

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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:10 am

All tests points are stabbed directly at the ignition module pligs..Live condition..Nothing disconnected.
My bike did not start up because I ran all the fuel out on purpose.
Trying to simulate your non starting bike.
Mine does have spark and these are the measurements for this condition.
Take notes.Your voltages may be slightly different but not more that 10% or so.
I did run my battery low for this test also.To simulate worst case thus the 11.5 volts on the coil with the bike on.

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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:04 pm

Mr Virgil, i did all of the tests except the ones requiring me to turn it over. My roomie/landlords bedroom window is 5 ft from the bike and he works 3rd shift. I will do the other tests after he wakes up but here are the results. I copy/pasted your list and put my results to the right of yours. I used the green wire in the white plug as ground for everything except the pg's. From what i see im suspecting bad pulse generators. Have a look and let me know what you think.

Note that I referenced all my measurments to the green/black in the blue plug and confirmed that it is ground.
I'll group the wires as shown in the schematic.
all measurments taken with the key on..kill switch on...all lights on so the primary volts will be right near 12 volts...
White plug wires
white/red--11 vdc.  11.1
black/white--12 vdc.  12.46
yellow/white--11.5 vdc.  12.4
yellow/blue--11.5 vdc.  12.4
yellow/red--11.5 vdc.   12.4
green--0.0 vdc zero

Red plug wires
red/white--11 vdc.  11.0
green/orange--11 vdc.  9-12 fluctuating at first
green/white--0.5 vdc.  .05-.09
light green/red--0.0 vdc

Blue plug with 2 wires
green/black--0.0 vdc zero
pink/white--2.0 vdc.  2.48

Black plug wires...
Orange--0.0 vdc.  .05
lt green--0.0 vdc.  .05
lt blue 0.0 vdc.  .05
white--0.0 vdc.  .05
white/blue 0.0 vdc---pulse coil wire. .142
19.6 ohms Mv
white/yellow--0.0 vdc--pulse coil wire. .01
13.6 ohms Mv
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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:22 pm

Green/white wire.Same test.Operate the side stand.It goes to it's switch.Zero volts ok if the side stand is up.
Green orange goes to the OD switch and lamp.Fluxuating is acceptable.
Pink/white is the ambient air sensor.It will vary a bit with temp.Voltage ok.
I'm a bit confused about the pulse coil readings.
Mine measured around 450 ohms (key off)and when I switched the key on...there was a very minor amount of volts...maybe 0.044...
I did move my meter to the battery ground post and it read zero.Its a slight voltage drop in the ground wiring but not enough to worry about.
Are you reading 19 ohms for the pulse coils?
Key off...

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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:38 pm

virgilmobile wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:22 pm
..
I'm a bit confused about the pulse coil readings.
....
Are you reading 19 ohms for the pulse coils?
Me too. Ohms and volts at the same reading!

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:44 pm

I did all tests key on and the ohms with the ground set at the blue plug like you said to do. It was on ohms but it actually fluctuated a bit. It stabilized at around 19 on the one. Im assuming i need to replace them but its going to be a while since im out of work atm and if i gotta pull the belts to change the pg's im gonna replace the belts at the same time.
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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:00 pm

Ok.sorry for the confusion.I sometimes should clarify a bit more.
Thought i did in the procedure I outlined.
.Probe connections.verify resistance.switch to DC volts...key on and crank...measure DC volts...
Voltage measurements are taken when the circuit is live.
Ohms measurements are always taken with no power applied to the circuit.
Even a milivolt on the line upsets the test meter signals and results.
Please retest both pulse coil wires for resistance..(ohms)...Key off ...Then voltage ..key on and voltage when cranking.
Sorry for the muddy waters

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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:01 pm

In a previous post you had said "Ok. I checked all the resistances on my coils and pulse generators, everything is in parameters.". So do you remember the values at that measurement?

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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:55 pm

Please ignore this post..Do not look at the picture or video...
This is my suggestion to every service technician out there.....However for somebody with limited test equipment, I have devised a basic test of a ignition coil... InThis is no way intended to prove quality only that it is capable of producing a spark...This is set up on a 88Gl1500 and has it's risks...Pay attention to the wire size (#18 stranded)..it is about 2 foot long and the end has been reduced to a single strand about 2 inches long(acts like a fuse)

The purpose is to simulate a set of points during the scratch test...Generating a collapsing field in the coil to produce a spark..It won't be great...vivid bright...just a basic spark you can see.Watch carefully on how I scratch the strand of wire...If you have ever stick welded,you know about this.Should the strand stick...it will simply burn...just like a fuse...The plug that has the yellow ignition coil wires is unplugged from the module and the test wire is stabbed into the yellow/red contact on the harness side..The ignition module is not needed.
The spare spark plugs is attached to #5 cylinder...right rear...Key on..scratch the wire and watch the spark...

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:29 pm

Sorry i havent responded yet but it's been raining like crazy here off and on for the last day and a half. When i get her tested ill let y'all know what i find out
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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:22 pm

Okey Dokey sparky :D
Keep us posted.

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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:00 am

virgilmobile wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:22 pm
Okey Dokey sparky :D
Keep us posted.
Okay,, well i finally got a chance to test the pulse generators and they didnt produce anything. I'm going to pull the timing covers and see whats going on. What blows my mind is that when it worked it ran like a top aaaannd, then nothin, then it'd run then it wouldn't. I tested the generators with the plug disconnected.
On a side note i found you on you tube Virgil, your flood victim looks great. I found out it was the guy i got mine from that painted it with black primer. I could strangle him for doing so. It came from the factory that beautiful burgundy.
Im broke as a joke right now so im not sure when i will be able to order replacements
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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:07 pm

Did you have the correct ohms reading at the ignition module(key not on)?We're both around 450 ohms?
As I recall,the pulse coils exit the front cover and plug into the main harness.Id go there first.
Look for corrosion...test at that plug going into the front cover.
Keep in mind..to generate that pulse,the pulse coil must be secured about 0.010" from the trigger wheel.
I don't think that's even adjustable.Just look at it.Make sure the trigger wheel and pulse coils are positioned correctly and secure.
You can also check ohms of the pulse coils at the plug going into the front cover.
Keep in mind,if just one of the two has a problem there will be no spark.
Do find out for certain before you just buy anything else.

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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:53 pm

I unplugged it under the cover and tested the blue with the blue and the yellow with the yellow and got no reading change at all on my multimeter. I haven't pulled the cover yet I plan on doing it in a little while. It looks like a real pain in the ass though. Do I need to pull the coolant line off in order to remove the cover?
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:20 pm

DarrellFields wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:53 pm
I unplugged it under the cover and tested the blue with the blue and the yellow with the yellow and got no reading change at all on my multimeter. I haven't pulled the cover yet I plan on doing it in a little while. It looks like a real pain in the ass though. Do I need to pull the coolant line off in order to remove the cover?
Which side of the connector are you measuring the resistance, at the male or female pins?

This picture may help.
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by ct1500 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:06 pm

DarrellFields wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:53 pm
I unplugged it under the cover and tested the blue with the blue and the yellow with the yellow and got no reading change at all on my multimeter. I haven't pulled the cover yet I plan on doing it in a little while. It looks like a real pain in the ass though. Do I need to pull the coolant line off in order to remove the cover?
No coolant lines need to be removed just the zip tube (flexible hot air pipe from headers to air box intake) at the bottom. Oil pressure switch wire needs to be removed from sender by oil filter. Small right cover comes right off, then with all bolts removed slide the big one to the left and out.
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please click contact
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:26 pm

Erdeniz Umman wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:20 pm
DarrellFields wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:53 pm
I unplugged it under the cover and tested the blue with the blue and the yellow with the yellow and got no reading change at all on my multimeter. I haven't pulled the cover yet I plan on doing it in a little while. It looks like a real pain in the ass though. Do I need to pull the coolant line off in order to remove the cover?
Which side of the connector are you measuring the resistance, at the male or female pins?

This picture may help.
The Male pins. The lead that goes to the timing cover
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:45 am

That is the correct side. You should normally have 400-500 ohm between the pins.

Do you read 0.0 ohms or O.L. on the multimeter display?

Check your multimeter be at the correct setting and make sure the multimeter is good by measuring a known resistance of another object.

And, It is not normal to have two malfunctioning Pulse Generators at the same time, check the continuity of the wires between the connector and the pulse generator units before ordering new pulse generators.

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:16 am

Okay, i redid my ohm test and the yellows are giving me a 400-500 ohm reading but the blue leg is dead
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virgilmobile
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:05 pm

Good test.Sounds like you found the problem.Yellow pair is one coil...Blue pair is the other...Now you can carefully disassemble and remove the offending part.Do inspect the wiring to it just in case it's broken...
Keep us posted

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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:17 pm

I definitely will. Thanks for all the help fellas. Unfortunately im broke and out of work atm so i cant afford the new/used pg's or timing belts atm. I Am curious how bad a belt job is on these though. Ive done several cars and a couple dual chain setups on cars and or trucks but never a bike.


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