89 Gl1500 no spark


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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:00 pm



Everything looked good on timing. The belts probably could use a change but im strapped on cash right now. I did notice though that it might be an ecu issue because with the key on if i hit the cruise on button it didn't light up on the cluster. I remembered reading somewhere on this forum a thread that said thats a way to check the ecu. Does that Sound right to y'all ? And im not meaning to sound pessimistic about the bike,, i just meant its been a brain strainer. The light came on before when i had no spark originally but now ive got nothing. Thx again

Update; i didn't really have the money but i found a replacement ecu on ebay for $30 so i went ahead and ordered it. Its just past midnight into fri now and its supposed to be here by tues.. I'll update when i have more info but i check this numerous times a day to see if anybody had any ideas where else to look. Y'all are Awesome. God Bless


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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:53 am

DarrellFields wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:00 pm
Everything looked good on timing. The belts probably could use a change but im strapped on cash right now. I did notice though that it might be an ecu issue because with the key on if i hit the cruise on button it didn't light up on the cluster. I remembered reading somewhere on this forum a thread that said thats a way to check the ecu. Does that Sound right to y'all ? And im not meaning to sound pessimistic about the bike,, i just meant its been a brain strainer. The light came on before when i had no spark originally but now ive got nothing. Thx again
It doesn't test the ECU. The black/white wire at the output of the kill switch provides positive voltage to the cruise lights in the instrument cluster (to the ECU/ICU and the ign.coils at the same time). So it is just a method to understand if something is wrong with the kill switch.

You have said that you have done the modification that I have explained before, does the relay click when you turn the kill switch to RUN?

Could you measure the resistances of the spark plug wires (ignition coil secondary coils) and report back here?
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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:44 am

Okay, i just measured all of the resistances including the plug wires and they are all within tolerance.
When i turn the key on and toggle the kill switch all of the relays click and i can hear the fuel pump cycle as well. It dawned on me i didn't specify that.
Below are pics of my test results. I took them in HD so it would make it easier to read them when zoomed. I will be unable to work any more on the bike until sunday because my fiancee's brother is getting married tomorrow and her family needs my help. Thanks again for yours. Its been immeasurable
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These 3 are of the coil plug
These 3 are of the coil plug







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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:54 am

Primary and secondary coils seem normal. And the spark plug wire resistances are fine also, but we should keep in mind that if the insulations of the plug wires are not good, the high voltage may be arcing to the frame, especially in humid air.

Let's wait for the new ICM and see if it will solve the issue or not.

I have watched some videos on YouTube about the bad spark wire insulation, some claim that these arcs can be seen in the dark as in the video below.



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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:26 pm

When the new computer comes in if i Finally have spark i will test the wires. Im going to see if i can find the screenshots i saved from the post about the cruise on button not lighting up being a bad ecu.
The thumbnails are really hard to read so i hope i got the order right. But i believe these are the screenshots i took avout figuring out if the wcu is bad via the cruise on light. Hopefully itll help with what ive been askong about. God bless and have a great weekend
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:36 pm

DarrellFields wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:26 pm
When the new computer comes in if i Finally have spark i will test the wires. Im going to see if i can find the screenshots i saved from the post about the cruise on button not lighting up being a bad ecu.
The thumbnails are really hard to read so i hope i got the order right. But i believe these are the screenshots i took avout figuring out if the wcu is bad via the cruise on light. Hopefully itll help with what ive been askong about. God bless and have a great weekend
It is telling the same thing that I have explained in the previous post. It is all about the black/white wire that you have worked on so far.

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:56 pm

Okay,, well i have no spark at all on any cylinder so,, all i can do is try the new ecu. I hooked up a loose fully charged car battery in parallel with jumper cables and still no spark. The voltage at the coil power wire stayed above 11.4 the majority of the time so at this point a new ecu is all i can think of. All the wires leading to power the coils are good and powered at the 3 plugs. I clipped and tied in in the fairing over the fan like u said to do. I'll update after the ecu comes in and i try it. If nothing else at least i will have a backup one
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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:23 pm

Ok,, im sorry its taken me so long to get back on here and post,, its been a busy week. Well as you called it the new ecu still didnt give me spark. That being said the picture on ebay was kind of dark and i didn't see it was missing the single brown wire plug until it came in. I looked at my haynes manual wiring diagram and it looks to be for the ccu so even if it did give me spark the bike likely wouldnt have run anyway. Also i did notice that when i hooked up the new ecu that all of the cruise lights came on when i turned on the key, as it was with the old ecu the cruise set light would work but not the cruise on light. So idk where to go from here. Thank you for your patience and help
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:02 pm

DarrellFields wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:23 pm
Also i did notice that when i hooked up the new ecu that all of the cruise lights came on when i turned on the key, as it was with the old ecu the cruise set light would work but not the cruise on light. So idk where to go from here. Thank you for your patience and help
When you turn the ignition key on if the kill switch is at the Run position, both Cruise On and Cruise Set lights will come on and go off after a few seconds. This is a bulb test performed by LCD unit in the instrument cluster.

After this test if you push the cruise on switch in, the Cruise On light should come on and stay on. The Cruise Set light will only come on when riding above a certain speed at 4th or 5th gear if the Cruise Control System is working.

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:15 pm

Erdeniz Umman wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:02 pm
DarrellFields wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:23 pm
Also i did notice that when i hooked up the new ecu that all of the cruise lights came on when i turned on the key, as it was with the old ecu the cruise set light would work but not the cruise on light. So idk where to go from here. Thank you for your patience and help
When you turn the ignition key on if the kill switch is at the Run position, both Cruise On and Cruise Set lights will come on and go off after a few seconds. This is a bulb test performed by LCD unit in the instrument cluster.

After this test if you push the cruise on switch in, the Cruise On light should come on and stay on. The Cruise Set light will only come on when riding above a certain speed at 4th or 5th gear if the Cruise Control System is working.
I understand, before the cruise on would not light up when the switch was on. I put the original ecu back in and now it does once again. I have rechecked all of my ohm resistances on the coil system from pulse generators to coil power wires as well as spark plug wires. The only thing i havent done is dig down to the coil packs themselves. I took the airbox off once and it was a bear just to get all of the hoses reattached on the bottom. I am hoping to avoid having to put the coil packs in hand. I dont see how all 3 packs would fail simultaneously. What boggles my mind is that so far everything checks out but i have zero spark on all 6 cylinders. I checked all 6 with a spark tester and they were all dead. I've checked every fuse on the bike, all good, i have disconnected, and sprayed every connector i could with contact cleaner and cleand them as badt as possible. Is there some wire i am ignorant of that runs to the back on the left side of the bike behind the saddlebag that could cause this? I know there is some sort of level switch on the right side but from what I've gathered it simply kills the entire ignition sysyem including the starter. I briefly looked for it when i had the right side bag off but wasn't sure 100% what it looks like.
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:12 am

Just for confirmation, can you crank the engine every time you press the start button?

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:45 am

Erdeniz Umman wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:12 am
Just for confirmation, can you crank the engine every time you press the start button?
Yes, the engine turns over fast. Just no spark, the fuel pump is working as well. My first step is to always hit the kill seitch and make sure its in the on position. I hear the fuel pump whenever it turns into the on position
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:23 pm

Could you measure the voltage at the Black/White wire once more?
But this time, touching the red probe to the Black/White wire and the black probe to the green wire in the ICU connector (6pin White) while the Ignition key ON, kill switch ON.

One more question, you have said you used an adjustable spark plug tester, have you checked the sparks at different kv settings?

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:45 pm

Ok. When i tested the voltage at the ecu it never dropped below 11.59. As far as checking the coil spark voltage it was registering minimal voltage. Dc and ac. It was like .005 to .010
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:23 pm

DarrellFields wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:45 pm
Ok. When i tested the voltage at the ecu it never dropped below 11.59. As far as checking the coil spark voltage it was registering minimal voltage. Dc and ac. It was like .005 to .010
I was also trying to understand the condition of the ground wire, could you measure the voltage as I have asked in the previous post.

For the second question about the spark tester, adjust it having a very close gap and check if you can see a spark, then if you can see a spark increase the gap and find the point where you lose the spark and read the corresponding number, that is the KV value that I have asked.

You can't measure a spark voltage with a regular voltmeter. It has thousands of volts.

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:12 pm

I did test the ecu like you said, and ive adjusted the spark test gap down to bareley open, looked at night in the dark and theres zero spark at all. I checked every cylinder and no fire at all on any of them. When i tested starter off it was full voltage and when i hit the starter button it dropped to 11.59 stable voltage but still no joy
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:08 pm

So, I think we have done everything to diagnose the problem.

I think ICM is the culprit. Maybe you can find a friend nearby who has a 89 model goldwing and use the ICM on his bike to make sure before buying a new or used one.

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:27 am

Erdeniz Umman wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:08 pm
So, I think we have done everything to diagnose the problem.

I think ICM is the culprit. Maybe you can find a friend nearby who has a 89 model goldwing and use the ICM on his bike to make sure before buying a new or used one.
The icm and ecu are the same thing just diff names right? I got a new ecu but its missing the brown wire/plug and i believe thats something leading to the ccu correct? Is that wire all important? I dont know anyone other than in this forum thay rides an 88/89 wing
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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:24 am

DarrellFields wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:27 am
Erdeniz Umman wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:08 pm
So, I think we have done everything to diagnose the problem.

I think ICM is the culprit. Maybe you can find a friend nearby who has a 89 model goldwing and use the ICM on his bike to make sure before buying a new or used one.
The icm and ecu are the same thing just diff names right? I got a new ecu but its missing the brown wire/plug and i believe thats something leading to the ccu correct? Is that wire all important? I dont know anyone other than in this forum thay rides an 88/89 wing
Unfortunately, 1989 model is a unique model, which has different ICU from a 1988 model. After 1990, two units (ICU and CCU) has been produced as one unit (ECU).

So you definitely need a 89 model ICU.

Actually I can not be sure %100 about the ICU. Because you have said the fuel pump is working when you hit the start button.

There is a fuel pump relay which is operated by the ICU on the right side, under the trunk near the BAS relay.

It is using the same yel/blu wire going to the ignition coils #3 and 4. So if you are sure that this relay operates properly, you should have a spark at least at the spark plugs 3 and/or 4.

Check again the fuel relay and the spark at the spark plugs 3 and 4.
If the fuel relay works and you can't have a spark at the spark plugs 3 and 4, then the ignition coils are bad.

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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by virgilmobile » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:47 pm

As a point of interest.On my 88..Turn on the key..both the cruise and set lamp light for the self test.Everytime I cycle the kill switch off then on,the fuel pump cycles.The "relay" ties to one ignition coil to keep the "relay" energized while there is spark.This is not a simple click on off relay..it it a fancy electronic control.
If your pump cycles whey you turn on the key and also cycle the kill switch..this means only that there is volts on that circuit.It has no reflection on spark...
Now..if you measure the volts feeding the pump and crank the engine...if the ignition module is firing a plug...it will keep the pump operating..


If all this is still leading you nowhere...I can be persuaded to provide voltage measurements on each ignition module wire with the key on not running to provide you with a "base line" for the 88 model.I believe(by your description)that we have the same beast.

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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:05 pm

Just read this from start to finish - even though I don't understand some of the content (anything electrical basically goes over my head), I must commend everyone for their efforts in trying to resolve this problem... I would only mention one thing - and it seems to have been addressed, but that negative ground cable attaching to the battery definitely needs to be replaced - it is cactus - corroded and the wires are not good - seems like an obvious area that may have an impact...

best of luck -- I will keep checking back and hope to eventually hear some success..

:)

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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:02 pm

Okay lol. First, Virgil and Erdeniz i will Definitely check the fuel pump tomorrow in the daylight. It is an 89 and from the way Erdeniz sounded the ecu on those was a 1 yr one off kind of deal but at this point i am so over my head its crazy,
Second answer lol, Aussie81 i Did add a good secondary ground to the setup. I used some old fine strand audio power cable "4 or 6 gauge" and i grounded it where the ecu and end of the oem ground bolts to the frame. I considered soldering in a pigtail and running it to the engine where the oem cable grounds as well. Both leads are soldered together back to back to avoid a bad connection forming between them. Also the leads at the battery are both soldered on.
Thank you all for your help its been invaluable . I really need to get her going with no more out of pocket money as i am all but stranded at my house and i live about 10 miles outside of town and cant line up a job until i get the bike 100% reliable. I also have an 85 nissan 4x4 but my transfer case has had it. Hence the need for my Goldie to be good and faithful
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DarrellFields
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by DarrellFields » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:08 pm

Okay well i just tested the voltage at the fuel pump and when i either first turn on the key or toggle the kill switch i get power to the fuel pump momentarily. BUT, when i hit the starter theres nothing. So i would assume the problem lies somewhere between the power and the coils. Now the nightmare job of figuring out where the loss of power is. Theres constant power on the blk/wht wire so i know thats not it, i can only assume theres a bad relay somewhere or even though they tested good a break in the wiring for my pulse generators.
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AZgl1800
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by AZgl1800 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:26 pm

Key ON:
there will be about 2 seconds worth of power to the fuel pump, and then it is gone. That is supposed to prime the carbs.

Then, when you hit the starter button, and it starts to roll over, the Pulse Generator tells the ECM that the engine is now ready to go, it is "Supposed to" power up the fuel pump again.

Have you triple checked that the Diaphragm is good on the Vacuum Operated Fuel Shut Off valve?? as a test, pull the fuel lines off of that valve, and insert a plastic nipple so the fuel line goes straight from the fuel filter to the carbs, no shut off valve involved. That valve can cause problems if it does not get good vacuum to make it open up...

of course, none of that is any good, IF the fuel pump does not get voltage while the engine is being rolled over by the starter motor.
John
'02 Gl1800 Hot Rod Yellow,
daughter named her Big Bird :lol:
http://www.goldwingfacts.com

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AZgl1800
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Re: 89 Gl1500 no spark

Post by AZgl1800 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:30 pm

Another test thought:

pull the fuel line from the left side of the Vacuum Operated shut off vavle, goes to the left side of the bike and forwards to the carbs.

Now, attach an extra length of fuel line to that line and hold a small can of fuel up a couple of feet higher in the air... that will provide fuel to the carbs and let you find out if the engine will fire up and run.... getting it to do that, will allow you to test the vacuum on the hose going to the shut off valve... and it will prove that the fuel pump and fuel filter are both good.


John
'02 Gl1800 Hot Rod Yellow,
daughter named her Big Bird :lol:
http://www.goldwingfacts.com

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