older style wet cell battery


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wilmo
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older style wet cell battery

Post by wilmo » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:17 am



The day came this weekend to hibernate the bikes, always a sad day. While removing the battery, I noticed that this is an older style wet cell battery. It looks pretty new but can't really tell how old it is. I bought the bike this spring and that's what it had in it. Anyway, after I pulled it out, I noticed that it was low on water. I put a strong light against the case and I could see through to where the level was. The battery has been ok but if I let it sit for about a week, starting is hard. So I filled it with distilled water to in between the low/high marks and charged it. Won't be able to tell anything until next year. The top of the plates were dry and I don't know for how long. Will adding water and charging reverse any damage that may have happened to the plates being dry?
If I knew/paid attention to the battery before now, I would have checked that sooner, I always use AGM batteries. So, this is my first wet cell on any bike, I don't think I like them. It hasn't caused me any problems yet, either but being dry for some time, I don't know what to expect in the future.



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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:38 am

Always keep the battery fully charged using a battery tender device, especially if the bike will not be used for a long time.

If the battery is not kept charged, then some unwanted chemical reactions may occur inside the cells which reduce the total capacity of the battery, although you see 12V or more when you check the battery voltage.

So, you may want to take the battery to a battery shop which has special test devices to understand its condition, and then decide what to do.

Personally, I have been using the OEM wet cell battery currently which is 3 years old, and adding distilled water almost every six months, no issues so far.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by wilmo » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:44 am

That was good information, fill every 6 months. The battery will be kept in the house all winter and I charge it once a month overnight with a trickle charger I have. I do this every winter with both my bikes. I don't have power in the shed where I store them so the batteries come out. But now I know when to expect the water to drop down.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by Fatwing Chris » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:52 am

The 1500 loves a good battery for starting and the AGM's are about 60 CCA's more than your lead/acid.For that reason I would say use your lead/acid for your fish finder or lawn mower etc and go buy an AGM for next spring.Your starter will thank you.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
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wilmo
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by wilmo » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:02 pm

Actually, I was thinking of giving it to the granddaughter for her Barbie Jeep ;), I'm sure it'll keep up with that. Or, I have a battery powered bass amp that needs a new battery....

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:20 pm

Fatwing Chris wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:52 am
The 1500 loves a good battery for starting and the AGM's are about 60 CCA's more than your lead/acid.For that reason I would say use your lead/acid for your fish finder or lawn mower etc and go buy an AGM for next spring.Your starter will thank you.
Although I am not against an AGM battery, I can't say the OEM wet cell batteries are bad either. Actually they are both lead-acid batteries, the difference is the absorbent material used inside the cells which is good for the health of the electrolyte.

And one more information, the AGM batteries lose some electrolyte as well, although they are known as maintenance free. And if the charging level of an AGM Battery drops under a certain level (I think it was 10V), it is very hard to recover it. You may find some videos on YouTube about this subject like below.



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Erdeniz Umman
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:53 pm

wilmo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:44 am
That was good information, fill every 6 months. The battery will be kept in the house all winter and I charge it once a month overnight with a trickle charger I have. I do this every winter with both my bikes. I don't have power in the shed where I store them so the batteries come out. But now I know when to expect the water to drop down.
You should keep the battery tender connected 24 hours, it has a specially programmed computer inside, checking the voltage, sometimes discharging, sometimes charging to keep the battery alive.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by wilmo » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:29 pm

I charged the battery for about 18 hrs on the trickle charger Saturday. Today, at lunch, I checked it and it read 12.01V with nothing attached. Should I charge it longer? Not sure what I should see on this battery but wondering since adding water that it hasn't charged long enough to energize the electrolyte. Saturday I measured the current draw from the charger at 136mA, so it's not wanting a whole lot. The max available current from the charger is 2A. This is not a battery tender but a battery charger meant for light duty work. We used it at work to keep the shaker table memory alive when the power was out.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:36 pm

wilmo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:29 pm
I charged the battery for about 18 hrs on the trickle charger Saturday. Today, at lunch, I checked it and it read 12.01V with nothing attached. Should I charge it longer? Not sure what I should see on this battery but wondering since adding water that it hasn't charged long enough to energize the electrolyte. Saturday I measured the current draw from the charger at 136mA, so it's not wanting a whole lot. The max available current from the charger is 2A. This is not a battery tender but a battery charger meant for light duty work. We used it at work to keep the shaker table memory alive when the power was out.
I think all of these devices are similar, but you should read the users manual for an exact instruction. It should turn itself off and on automatically, when necessary. Just keep it connected to the battery.

Personally, I have been using Black and Decker BDV90.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by MikeB » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:02 pm

If the battery is only reading 12.01 volts after being charged for the length of time you say it has, then I would take it to be recycled and buy a new battery.
A motorcycle battery that is fully charged should read about 12.75 volts with no load.

A better test is by using a load tester. Any battery shop can test it for you.
MikeB
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by ct1500 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:41 pm

Fatwing Chris wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:52 am
The 1500 loves a good battery for starting and the AGM's are about 60 CCA's more than your lead/acid.For that reason I would say use your lead/acid for your fish finder or lawn mower etc and go buy an AGM for next spring.Your starter will thank you.
+1 Throw that battery into the trash. To effectively charge a discharged battery do not use a trickle charger your 12.01V is very low.
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by wilmo » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:00 pm

I never said it was discharged. I just noticed the water level was low. Still started the bike just fine, it hasn't given me trouble, I'm just wondering about how long it takes for it all to become 'electrolyte' in it's strongest form, that's all.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by Erdeniz Umman » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:50 pm

As a basic answer, discharging time and charging time can be accepted to be equal.

For example, if the battery has 20Ah capacity, it can provide 1 amper current for 20 hours or 2 amper current for 10 hours...

So, if your charger provides 1 amp it will take 20 hours to charge a 20Ah battery.

On the other hand, the battery tender devices are not regular chargers, it may take more time to bring the battery to the fully charged condition.

I don't know yours but, on my device, if the battery is not able to accept charge the device lights up a red Led, if the battery is fully charged a continuos green Led.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by lamasue » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:52 pm

I go on big trips with the bike if i had any dought i would replace it with an upgrade

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by MikeB » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:57 pm

wilmo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:29 pm
I charged the battery for about 18 hrs on the trickle charger Saturday. Today, at lunch, I checked it and it read 12.01V with nothing attached.
wilmo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:29 pm
The max available current from the charger is 2A. This is not a battery tender but a battery charger meant for light duty work.
After 18 hours at 2 amps, the battery should be fully charged.
As he said, it was not a Battery Tender. Just a 2A trickle charger.

At 12.01 volts after 18 hours, that battery will leave you stranded if you continue using it. It would be a good idea to buy a new one before you intend to take the bike out for any more than a ride around the block.
MikeB
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by fibersport » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:27 pm

Dumb question but is your volt meter accurate? I wouldn't toss the battery out just yet, make sure your contacts are clean and your charger is actually putting out a charge. I would also invest in a Battery Tender. They are smart chargers and will allow you to keep your battery on charge indefinitely without over-charging. There are other brands but my experience is with that brand and they do work great. A regular charger can cook a battery by overcharging it. The least expensive Battery Tender is something like $25 on Amazon, don't bother with the highest output model, the .75 amp ones are great for bikes. They come with a plug that attaches to the battery so you don't even have to open the side cover.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by ct1500 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:35 pm

wilmo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:00 pm
I never said it was discharged. I just noticed the water level was low. Still started the bike just fine, it hasn't given me trouble, I'm just wondering about how long it takes for it all to become 'electrolyte' in it's strongest form, that's all.
12.01V is a discharged battery. Are you using a known good electrical test instrument with key off, right? Pump 10A or so into it with a bigger charger for 30-60 minutes thereabouts and retest.
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by AZgl1800 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:50 pm

wilmo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:00 pm
I never said it was discharged. I just noticed the water level was low. Still started the bike just fine, it hasn't given me trouble, I'm just wondering about how long it takes for it all to become 'electrolyte' in it's strongest form, that's all.
It will take several charge/discharge cycles to get the electrolyte mixed.
nothing to worry about, just charge it up, leave it on a Battery Tender, and you are good to go.
John
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daughter named her Big Bird :lol:
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by wilmo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:52 am

Today I started a plan of charge/rest cycles. Voltage was at 12.1 volts this morning. I connected the charger and ammeter to the battery and the battery is drawing 156mA. I'm going to leave it for several hours. Then disconnect and let it rest for same. Repeat for about 5-6 cycles. I'll take measurements as I go to ensure that eventually this battery will come up. It never gave me any problems all summer, it's just the low water level that bothers me and for how long. If it doesn't come up due to sulfation then it gets relegated to the Barbie Jeep and I buy a new AGM.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by themainviking » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:23 am

wilmo wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:52 am
Today I started a plan of charge/rest cycles. Voltage was at 12.1 volts this morning. I connected the charger and ammeter to the battery and the battery is drawing 156mA. I'm going to leave it for several hours. Then disconnect and let it rest for same. Repeat for about 5-6 cycles. I'll take measurements as I go to ensure that eventually this battery will come up. It never gave me any problems all summer, it's just the low water level that bothers me and for how long. If it doesn't come up due to sulfation then it gets relegated to the Barbie Jeep and I buy a new AGM.
If all you are feeding that battery is 156mA, it will probably take a year to charge it to 12.75 Volts. It needs to be charged at 2 Amps to get up there, and as mentioned, at 2 Amps it will charge the battery in about 10 plus hours. 156mA is only a battery tender's voltage, and is meant to keep a fully charged battery topped up. It is not enough to charge a battery. If the battery is showing 12.1 Volts, then it should be drawing more from the charger. If it was at 12.7, then it would make more sense. I suspect one of your tools is not operating correctly, either the charger, or the tester. I just charged my diesel truck batteries with a smart charger, and when I started, they were at 12.1. After ten hours on automatic charge, they were at 13.1. This has since dropped back to 12.75. These are wet acid batteries, so should act the same as your motorcycle battery does. You need to get a better charger, is what I think. If a better charger does not bring the battery up, then it should be replaced. 12.1 is about a quarter charge for a 12 Volt wet cell battery. If they drop below 12 Volts, consider them dead.
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by wilmo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:03 am

The charger is quite capable of throwing 2A at it, that is it's capacity. The battery, which is the load, is ONLY calling for 156mA. The load (battery in this case) dictates what current draw it needs, not the charger (supply). If I connect a full swing battery charger to it, capable of 12A, it still will only draw 156mA. As the battery charges more, less current draw. The battery has an internal resistance equal to the state of charge it is in at that time. Fully charged, it has a very high resistance, hence less current draw vs. flat, where the resistance is quite low and will draw a high amount of current that will continuously drop as the battery charges (resistance raises). This is just simply electricity 101. And true for a battery that doesn't have shorted cells or is sulfated, in other words a good battery.
It may be better for me to add a light to the load and make the rest cycle a discharge cycle, for a couple of hours, and then charge again. This will change the current draw during the charge cycle, don't know yet what that will be.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:58 pm

You could save time by taking it to a battery shop and have it load tested. Could save you a lot of time and aggravation.
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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by wilmo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:00 pm

Very true, and I plan on that. But at this point I don't think the battery is ready for that yet. They have to be in a fully charged state and I'm not sure if is there yet. After cycling it a few times, then I will test it.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by cihilb » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:23 pm

wilmo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:02 pm
Actually, I was thinking of giving it to the granddaughter for her Barbie Jeep ;), I'm sure it'll keep up with that. Or, I have a battery powered bass amp that needs a new battery....
Not really a good idea for the Jeep. Wet cell batteries produce an explosive gas, especially dangerous in a confined area. The dc motor in the Jeep may have brushes in it that small sparks. Also, if by some chance she rolls the Jeep over, the acid from the battery can leak.
The riding toys made now use sealed batteries.

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Re: older style wet cell battery

Post by Fatwing Chris » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:57 pm

Erdeniz Umman wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:20 pm
Fatwing Chris wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:52 am
The 1500 loves a good battery for starting and the AGM's are about 60 CCA's more than your lead/acid.For that reason I would say use your lead/acid for your fish finder or lawn mower etc and go buy an AGM for next spring.Your starter will thank you.
Although I am not against an AGM battery, I can't say the OEM wet cell batteries are bad either. Actually they are both lead-acid batteries, the difference is the absorbent material used inside the cells which is good for the health of the electrolyte.

And one more information, the AGM batteries lose some electrolyte as well, although they are known as maintenance free. And if the charging level of an AGM Battery drops under a certain level (I think it was 10V), it is very hard to recover it. You may find some videos on YouTube about this subject like below.


The OEM batteries in Wing's have been AGM's for years.The extra CCA is what the 1500 works better with.Had a 1500 for 5 years and I gotta tell you the difference in the rpm that the AGM turned it over at seemed like it was double what the lead/acid did.No more lead/acid for me.Both my atv's have then too.My Can-Am sits in a cold garage all winter some times without a tender and it still always starts.

Better for the 1800 as well when I lay it down to change the rear wheel.


If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
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