Front tire for GL1500....again?


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Jag39
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Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:18 am



Needing to change out my E3 front on a GL1500. I run a Comtrac Vredestein 185/75/16 on the rear. First question was whether It mattered if it was bias or radial on the front. Second, I was looking at the Bridgestone G721E, because of the tad better weight carrying of 637lbs vs 600. However, haven't seen any comments, anywhere on this tire. It's a bias ply H rated, so looks pretty good from here. Initially considered the Battleax, but have seen some negatives on those, lately. Also, why does everyone seem to run them reverse rotation? Just curious on that last bit, as I can't see a reason for it. The bias should be designed for it to be run one direction.



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minimac
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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by minimac » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:23 am

I've had good luck and a lot of miles running a Bridgestone Excedra Max radial on the front of mine. I'm running the Austone on the back. It took a little fiddling with the air pressures to get what I like, but this combination sticks like glue, wet or dry.

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:11 pm

minimac wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:23 am
I've had good luck and a lot of miles running a Bridgestone Excedra Max radial on the front of mine. I'm running the Austone on the back. It took a little fiddling with the air pressures to get what I like, but this combination sticks like glue, wet or dry.
I'll check it out. Appreciate the info. Bridgestone has so many different tires out there, it's hard to keep them apart. ;)

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by AZgl1800 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:38 pm

the reason for the "reverse rotation" is because of hard braking, the riders want the tread to be stressed in the same "direction" as it was designed for.

I have a good friend, DaveO430 who has run the BattleAx and he always mounted it backwards to the direction of travel, and that is the reason he explained to me. Dave knows his bikes, he maintains them for a lot of people, and is a retired 30 year Honda tech.

He is a hard rider, very few can follow him in the twisties, except for maybe "Yellow Wolf"....
I trust his judgement.
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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by aj1500 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:20 am

I ran a Batlax once, never again, it started cupping pretty quick and then the tire started splitting at the edge of the sipes. I know my rig is hard on tires but the Pilot Activ hasn't failed me and it is a hair wider than the ax so it's an even smoother ride. I did run the Pilot before I added the sidecar and I loved it, very minor cupping but that is easy to control with a little grinder or good belt sander. even now on the sidecar the Pilot holds up great.
on the reverse rotation, it's not just due to potential hard braking, it's also so the rotation is correct to push water out correctly when riding in the rain, you want the tread to push the water not try to pull it under the tire. However I have mounted them both ways and honestly can't tell the difference, either way they stick to the roads when wet. But I'll admit I never push my bike hard in wet conditions

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:38 am

AZgl1800 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:38 pm
the reason for the "reverse rotation" is because of hard braking, the riders want the tread to be stressed in the same "direction" as it was designed for.

I have a good friend, DaveO430 who has run the BattleAx and he always mounted it backwards to the direction of travel, and that is the reason he explained to me. Dave knows his bikes, he maintains them for a lot of people, and is a retired 30 year Honda tech.

He is a hard rider, very few can follow him in the twisties, except for maybe "Yellow Wolf"....
I trust his judgement.
Appreciate that info. Still tying to get my head around it, but just wondered what the reason was. Thanks! I kept thinking it would probably cup worse running it that way, but obviously this guy knows more than I do on the subject, which is, admittedly, pretty much nil.

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:42 am

aj1500 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:20 am
I ran a Batlax once, never again, it started cupping pretty quick and then the tire started splitting at the edge of the sipes. I know my rig is hard on tires but the Pilot Activ hasn't failed me and it is a hair wider than the ax so it's an even smoother ride. I did run the Pilot before I added the sidecar and I loved it, very minor cupping but that is easy to control with a little grinder or good belt sander. even now on the sidecar the Pilot holds up great.
on the reverse rotation, it's not just due to potential hard braking, it's also so the rotation is correct to push water out correctly when riding in the rain, you want the tread to push the water not try to pull it under the tire. However I have mounted them both ways and honestly can't tell the difference, either way they stick to the roads when wet. But I'll admit I never push my bike hard in wet conditions
OK! Think I'm getting a handle on this, sort of. The water would be a big deal, for me, since I ride all weather. If I'm to understand this, run in reverse rotation it pushes the water out, but run correctly it sucks it in. So, when run correctly on the rear, it would suck the water in, right...?

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by aj1500 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:47 am

not sure if this will work but this will explain it better than I can http://sgbikerboy.com/2016/12/26/why-do ... -patterns/

but like I said I have done both directions and can't tell the difference, I ride all weather as well

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:01 am

aj1500 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:47 am
not sure if this will work but this will explain it better than I can http://sgbikerboy.com/2016/12/26/why-do ... -patterns/

but like I said I have done both directions and can't tell the difference, I ride all weather as well
Absolutely helped. Thanks for the link, it really answered my question that they actually do run the grooves in different directions, and why. I ran into this on my KLR running shinko tires. I mounted them both with the correct rotation, but noticed the rear looked backwards. I left it that way, only because of the arrow, now I understand that they didn't just screw it up in the mold. Big help.

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:53 pm

minimac wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:23 am
I've had good luck and a lot of miles running a Bridgestone Excedra Max radial on the front of mine. I'm running the Austone on the back. It took a little fiddling with the air pressures to get what I like, but this combination sticks like glue, wet or dry.
Ordered the Excedra Max today. Mostly based on the fact we are running similar setups, and you have had good luck with it, so far. Traction is key with me, with longevity following behind that. Also, price sounded very good, for a radial. Thanks again!

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by AZgl1800 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:33 pm

IF, a tire has rain sipes in the tread, there is only one proper way to mount it, in the direction of travel as marked by the manufacturer.
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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by minimac » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:51 am

I forgot to mention that I run ceramic beads for balancing. I run 2oz. in the front and 3oz. in the rear. I've had no cupping on any of my front tires (I run them in my scooters also) since doing that. Here's where I got mine. Great price and really fast service.
http://www.tirebalancebeads.com/

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:36 pm

minimac wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:51 am
I forgot to mention that I run ceramic beads for balancing. I run 2oz. in the front and 3oz. in the rear. I've had no cupping on any of my front tires (I run them in my scooters also) since doing that. Here's where I got mine. Great price and really fast service.
http://www.tirebalancebeads.com/
I've always used weight. My 185 vredestein took 1\2 oz. Total. Less than the Elite 3 it replaced.

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Fiberthree » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:15 pm

Jag39 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:36 pm

I've always used weight. My 185 vredestein took 1\2 oz. Total. Less than the Elite 3 it replaced.
All tires balance differently. Even two of the same model will have different heavy spots. From September 2006 to December 2017 I have run six sets of Dunlop E3s on my 1500. All required different weights in different locations with a couple of tires requiring no weights at all. So you can't judge how good a tire is by how much balancing weight it needs. (My last E3s had 25,220 miles on them.)
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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by AZgl1800 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:09 pm

and,

IF you are not using beads or other dynamic balance method ( Centramatics )

the fixed lead weights are only good for the short length of time, it takes to pick some stones, or mud, or whatever....

Tires with lead weights that are never rebalanced, tend to cup out badly.

My tires have never cupped since I started using Dyna Beads about two bikes back.
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Jag39
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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:53 am

AZgl1800 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:09 pm
and,

IF you are not using beads or other dynamic balance method ( Centramatics )

the fixed lead weights are only good for the short length of time, it takes to pick some stones, or mud, or whatever....

Tires with lead weights that are never rebalanced, tend to cup out badly.

My tires have never cupped since I started using Dyna Beads about two bikes back.
I've never had any issues with the weight, in 55 years. No cupping, ever, or getting out of balance. Might try the beads, I've tried them in semi tires, before. As to the mud and rocks, never had any stay on the tire for more than a few seconds. I have 5 other vehicles, they all have weights. Guess whatever floats your boat.

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:57 am

Fiberthree wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:15 pm
Jag39 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:36 pm

I've always used weight. My 185 vredestein took 1\2 oz. Total. Less than the Elite 3 it replaced.
All tires balance differently. Even two of the same model will have different heavy spots. From September 2006 to December 2017 I have run six sets of Dunlop E3s on my 1500. All required different weights in different locations with a couple of tires requiring no weights at all. So you can't judge how good a tire is by how much balancing weight it needs. (My last E3s had 25,220 miles on them.)
Got to be a record, 25K. You should send those to the Dunlop museum. :D

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:09 am

Jag39 wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:57 am
Fiberthree wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:15 pm
Jag39 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:36 pm

I've always used weight. My 185 vredestein took 1\2 oz. Total. Less than the Elite 3 it replaced.
All tires balance differently. Even two of the same model will have different heavy spots. From September 2006 to December 2017 I have run six sets of Dunlop E3s on my 1500. All required different weights in different locations with a couple of tires requiring no weights at all. So you can't judge how good a tire is by how much balancing weight it needs. (My last E3s had 25,220 miles on them.)
Got to be a record, 25K. You should send those to the Dunlop museum. :D
BTW, I'm fully aware that similar tires can require different weights. I've been mounting and balancing my own tires on tractor trailers, equipment trailers and bikes for many years. I just thought folks would find it interesting, that a commercial delivery van tire took 2 1/2 ounces less weight than the E3 it replaced. Just considering the difference in tire size, makes this interesting to me.

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by AZgl1800 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:58 pm

I once had a truck tire that took about 8 oz on one side, and less than an ounce on the other side.

Talk about a Dynamic Out of Balance situation...

that same tire, I had tried to get it to balance with Dyna Beads, and after about 5 miles of travel, realized "this is no good"..... the steering wheel was shimmying so bad, almost could not hold it.

went to the tire shop I use and they found what I mentioned... had to be a bad cure or something during manufacture.
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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:35 pm

AZgl1800 wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:58 pm
I once had a truck tire that took about 8 oz on one side, and less than an ounce on the other side.

Talk about a Dynamic Out of Balance situation...

that same tire, I had tried to get it to balance with Dyna Beads, and after about 5 miles of travel, realized "this is no good"..... the steering wheel was shimmying so bad, almost could not hold it.

went to the tire shop I use and they found what I mentioned... had to be a bad cure or something during manufacture.
Sounds almost like a separation in the plies. Used to happen a lot with steer tires on a truck at around 120,000 miles. You had plenty of warning, as you would start noticing it in the curves.

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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by joeincalif » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:06 am

AZgl1800 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:33 pm
IF, a tire has rain sipes in the tread, there is only one proper way to mount it, in the direction of travel as marked by the manufacturer.
+1 on that, it would be a long shot BUT you ever got in an accident and the adjuster found out the tire was mounted in the wrong direction they would have a good reason to deny your claim
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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by AZgl1800 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:20 am

I have heard/seen a lot of folks get concerned about the insurance companies denying a claim because of the "wrong tire", but no one has ever been able to document that fact. This is just purely paranoia on the part of the person who is concerned about it.

I for one, have talked to several insurance agents, and one insurance investigator ( on my '94SE that was totalled ) and every one of them say " it has a tire on it, right? "

they are not concerned that the tire was wrong, nor had any of them tried to pin the blame on the tire as the cause of the accident.

I suppose, in a rare case, if the tire has a blow out, and you file a claim, they 'might' investigate, but even then, I sincerely doubt that. your deductible will exceed the value of the tire.
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Re: Front tire for GL1500....again?

Post by Jag39 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:38 pm

minimac wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:23 am
I've had good luck and a lot of miles running a Bridgestone Excedra Max radial on the front of mine. I'm running the Austone on the back. It took a little fiddling with the air pressures to get what I like, but this combination sticks like glue, wet or dry.
Took your recommendation, and mounted an Excedra Max radial in place of the E3, on the front. Running the 185/75-16 Comtrac Vredestrein on the back. Totally different bike. Running 42lbs front and rear, at the moment, mainly for the load carrying capacity. Have about 200 miles of high speed, curves, and tight maneuvers in a parking lot. Love this tire, so far. Can't believe how light and quick it is maneuvering. Loved the price, too. Now if it holds up, which only time will tell. Thanks for the recommendation.



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