2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start


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Stew
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:40 am
Location: Smokey Point, WA - USA
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
2005 Honda CRF230F

Previous bikes:
2004 Polaris Sportsman 90
2003 Honda Ruckus
1993 Honda Elite SR
1986 Honda CR125R
1979 Yamaha GT80

2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by Stew » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:40 pm



I think I need some ideas from the experts here, bike has an intermittent no-start condition. It was doing it again this morning for a couple of tries but then started working again, this is going to be fun to figure out :(

This is what I noticed this morning before it started working again... Bike was on the center stand, side stand up and in neutral. Hit the starter button and I heard something clicking that sounded like it was coming from underneath the seat, the headlight would also go out like I believe it's supposed to. When turning the ignition on all the dash lights appear to be coming on like they should. I didn't hear any clicking down by the battery or foot brake so I don't think either of those relays were clicking, just whatever that was under the seat.

Clutch in or out didn't matter, I put the side stand down and the light for that came on, I put it back up and the light went out and then the starter started cranking again. Is it possible for the side stand switch to be failing in a way that would allow the light to still operate but just not crank the starter? Also when this happened yesterday reverse wasn't working either.

For now this is going to be tricky to diagnose since it's intermittent but I'm hoping some of these symptoms will sound familiar to someone. Thanks guys and gals!


Winging it every chance I get :)

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tigi
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:11 am
Location: anniston,al
Motorcycle: 1999 Honda GL1500 with a CSC trike kit

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by tigi » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:57 pm

Sounds like either the starter or solenoid going south !

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MikeB
Posts: 1972
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Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: 1998 - GL1500 Aspencade.
2003 - GL1800A

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by MikeB » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Hi Stew. Personally, I think it is the reverse lever switch that is causing the problem.

This is from the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual for the 2000 GL1500:
Starter and reverse systems do not operate but the neutral indicator operates.
• Weak battery or poor terminal connections.
• Blown RVS Start fuse .
• Open circuit at reverse lever switch or faulty starter/reverse motor; do test A2.

Because I do not know if you have a service manual and I suppose you will ask what Test A2 is, here you go:
TEST A2: Power and Ground Isolation
1. Disconnect C57 (starter/reverse switch) and with ignition switch ON, check for battery voltage at BLK/LT GRN circuit.
If yes, go to test A3.
If no, go to test A4.

TEST A3: Power and Ground Starter Relay A Isolation
1. Reconnect C57 and disconnect C41 (starter relay A). With ignition switch ON, check for voltage at YEL/RED circuit with starter/reverse switch depressed.
If yes, go to step 2.
If no, service YEL/RED circuit for an open. If OK, replace starter/reverse switch.
2. Check for battery voltage at starter relay A BLK circuit from battery.
If yes, go to step 3.
If no, repair BLK circuit.
3. With ignition switch ON, gearshift in NEUTRAL, and reverse lever switch in the FORWARD position, check for voltage between BLK (battery feed) circuit and C41 BRN/RED using a test light.
If yes, go to step 4.
If no, service BRN/RED circuit for an open between starter relay A and S302.
4. Check for battery voltage across BLK circuits at starter relay A.
If yes, go to step 5.
If no, service BLK circuit between starter relay A and 8227 for an open.
5. Reconnect C41 and disconnect BLK circuits at starter/reverse motor terminal. Connect test light at starter/reverse motor terminal. With ignition switch ON, reverse lever switch FORWARD and gearshift in NEUTRAL, press and hold starter/reverse switch. Test lamp should light.
If yes, replace starter/reverse motor.
If no, replace starter relay A.

TEST A4: Power and Ground IGN/Cruise Relay Isolation
1. Disconnect the IGN/cruise relay. With the ignition switch ON, check for battery voltage at both WHT circuits.
If yes, go to step 2.
If no, service WHT circuit for an open.
2. Check for battery voltage between WHT and RED/WHT circuits.
If yes, go to step 3.
If no, go to test A5.
3. Connect a fused jumper (15A) between WHT and BLK/LT GRN circuit at IGN/cruise relay and check for battery voltage at BLK/LT GRN circuit at C57.
If yes, replace IGN/cruise relay.
If no, service BLK/LT GRN circuit.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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Stew
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:40 am
Location: Smokey Point, WA - USA
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
2005 Honda CRF230F

Previous bikes:
2004 Polaris Sportsman 90
2003 Honda Ruckus
1993 Honda Elite SR
1986 Honda CR125R
1979 Yamaha GT80

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by Stew » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:20 pm

Tigi, of those two possibilities I'd suspect the relay first since there was no audible clicking from them.

MikeB, thank you! I can definitely follow these steps and see what the heck is going on. This'll get me started, I'll report back and let you know what I find.

As I'm thinking about the clicking under the seat, that could've been the relay I added to switch the in-dash voltmeter on/off. I connected it to the accessory terminals on the fuse panel.

Thank you guys so much!
Winging it every chance I get :)

Redhot
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:44 am
Location: England
Motorcycle: Gl1500 K

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by Redhot » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:04 am

The first simple thing to do is undo battery terminals. Clean them up and make sure they are re-attached tightly. A clicking sound could be the starter solenoid not getting enough power from battery to starter, causing the relay to switch on and off. Same as a weak battery. If you keep trying to start this way then you will burn out starter solenoid. This might not be the problem, but easy to eliminate before getting too deep.

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Stew
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:40 am
Location: Smokey Point, WA - USA
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
2005 Honda CRF230F

Previous bikes:
2004 Polaris Sportsman 90
2003 Honda Ruckus
1993 Honda Elite SR
1986 Honda CR125R
1979 Yamaha GT80

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by Stew » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:23 pm

I think MikeB might be on the right track with the reverse lever switch.

It didn't turn over again yesterday morning so I pulled out the reverse lever and pushed it back in then it fired right up and was fine the rest of the day. I think I'll still need to wait until it stops cranking permanently though before being able to accurately troubleshoot it.
Winging it every chance I get :)

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MikeB
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: 1998 - GL1500 Aspencade.
2003 - GL1800A

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by MikeB » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:52 pm

Stew wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:23 pm
I think MikeB might be on the right track with the reverse lever switch.

It didn't turn over again yesterday morning so I pulled out the reverse lever and pushed it back in then it fired right up and was fine the rest of the day. I think I'll still need to wait until it stops cranking permanently though before being able to accurately troubleshoot it.
That is pretty much a dead giveaway, Stew. The switch contacts themselves are more than likely just fine. But the switch plunger that actuates the contacts in the switch is probably sticking and in need of cleaning.


MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

Techdude2000
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:11 pm
Location: Lexington, KY
Motorcycle: 2004 GL1800

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by Techdude2000 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:36 pm

I thought if the reverse lever switch was not functioning properly, the neutral light would not come on. Doesn’t the neutral light get its power from the lever switch when it’s in the neutral position(not reverse)?

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MikeB
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: 1998 - GL1500 Aspencade.
2003 - GL1800A

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by MikeB » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:57 pm

Yes you are correct about the Neutral light. One would think that the light should not be operating.
But from my experience when it comes to troubleshooting electrical malfunctions, all bets are off as to how the affected systems are going to react in other than normal conditions.

In the Electrical Troubleshooting Honda Manual, the first part of the troubleshooting leads one to the reverse lever switch.

Starter and reverse systems do not operate but the neutral indicator operates.
• Weak battery or poor terminal connections.
• Blown RVS Start fuse .
Open circuit at reverse lever switch or faulty starter/reverse motor; do test A2.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

Techdude2000
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:11 pm
Location: Lexington, KY
Motorcycle: 2004 GL1800

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by Techdude2000 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:41 am

MikeB wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:57 pm
Yes you are correct about the Neutral light. One would think that the light should not be operating.
But from my experience when it comes to troubleshooting electrical malfunctions, all bets are off as to how the affected systems are going to react in other than normal conditions.

In the Electrical Troubleshooting Honda Manual, the first part of the troubleshooting leads one to the reverse lever switch.

Starter and reverse systems do not operate but the neutral indicator operates.
• Weak battery or poor terminal connections.
• Blown RVS Start fuse .
Open circuit at reverse lever switch or faulty starter/reverse motor; do test A2.
Thanks for the reply. I’m very familiar with the 1800’s system, but still learning about the 1200 & 1500 systems. One thing that I learned awhile back with the 1800’s ETM, is the lack of other steps in the troubleshooting that are necessary to narrow down some failures. This 1500 circuit is very similar to the 1800’s as far as the system needing power and a ground on the reverse relay to energize it so that it will provide the ground path for the A starter relay’s coil for starting. The 1800 relies on the reverse regulator assembly to “steer” the power and ground to this relay for use. The power is also used for the neutral light and this is the case for the 1500’s system, except the 1500 uses the lever switch for the power switchover where the 1800 uses the reverse shift switch on the handlebar for the switchover. Hopefully a good cleaning or replacement of this 1500’s switch will get it going. I’m currently trying to help an 1800 owner troubleshoot a similar symptom on another bulletin board. The troubleshooting steps in the manual mention the ground paths very little in its steps, but this is where his issue is rooted. Goodluck on this one, I’ll stay tuned...

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WingAdmin
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Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:46 am

MikeB wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:52 pm
Stew wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:23 pm
I think MikeB might be on the right track with the reverse lever switch.

It didn't turn over again yesterday morning so I pulled out the reverse lever and pushed it back in then it fired right up and was fine the rest of the day. I think I'll still need to wait until it stops cranking permanently though before being able to accurately troubleshoot it.
That is pretty much a dead giveaway, Stew. The switch contacts themselves are more than likely just fine. But the switch plunger that actuates the contacts in the switch is probably sticking and in need of cleaning.
reverse switch.jpg
The contacts in the switch are inaccessible, it is a sealed unit. The symptoms you state are a dead giveaway. It is not going to get better - I can tell you from personal experience that at some point "shifting to reverse and then back out" will only work for so long - eventually the bike will refuse to start at all, and you'll be stuck.

This is such a common fault that Cyclemax carries the replacement switches in stock. It's a cheap and easy fix for $14:

http://cyclemax.com/inc/sdetail/gl1500_ ... 129/188751




User avatar
Stew
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:40 am
Location: Smokey Point, WA - USA
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
2005 Honda CRF230F

Previous bikes:
2004 Polaris Sportsman 90
2003 Honda Ruckus
1993 Honda Elite SR
1986 Honda CR125R
1979 Yamaha GT80

Re: 2000 GL1500SE intermittent no start

Post by Stew » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:23 pm

That's reassuring to have another confirmation that this is likely the problem, thanks WingAdmin. I need to place a Cyclemax order here before too long, I need this switch, the cruise and sub filters and a couple other maintenance items still on my list.

The problem is when it's too cold to ride it's too cold to be in my garage working on it, and when it's warm enough to work on it I want to ride!


Winging it every chance I get :)

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