Timing Belts, what's the scoop


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Tris
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Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby Tris » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:55 pm



Just bought an 89 GL1500 with 70,000 km an d no real maintenance history available. So everything I'm reading and everything I'm being told says I should change the timing belts, so I will, just cause I think it's a good idea.

However, after going over the owners manual as well as researching the forums I'm not seeing any consensus on how often one should change the belts. It's not even mentioned in the owners manual maintenance schedule. Opinions on the forum vary widely. My mechanic suggested every 50,000 km or 5 years.

Is there a rule buried here? Just curious.

Tris


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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby keithg64 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:14 pm

Yup there is nothing writen in stone, but being of the age of the bike and no info from the PO, it.s not a bad idea or even just for the insurance.
It's not what you buy, it's what you build.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby cbx4evr » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:55 am

You definitely want to be changing those belts. They are well over 20 years old. Wait till you call the dealership for a price though. They are crazy expensive in Canada. What is your location? I've got a set of belts to put in my 1500 and maybe we are close and could make a tech day out of it. Right now I am recovering from surgery on my wrist so won't be doing it for a while yet.
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby thrasherg » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:02 pm

Your Mechanic seems to have it spot on.. Like all things, they become less supple with age and break. When timing belts break, the expense is collosall!! Change them every 5 years for peace of mind. As mentioned you cvan save a lot of money by doing it yourself, it's not that difficult but do plan on spending a full day to do it, and have a good workshop manual handy.

Gary

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby djoyner » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:10 pm

I would recommend that if you change them now if you don't know for sure when they were last changed.

I changed them when I bought my '85 1200 with 45k miles and also on my '96 with 76k miles. The 5 year/50k miles seems reasonable enough as a replacement interval. For the cost of the belts and a little of your time, it's money and time well spent.
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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby MJSantos » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:35 pm

Have to agree with everyone 5yrs or 40-50 thousand miles. Even though they may look good rubder compunds breakdown and the cordage will to. The other problem is we have layup time in the northern countries and the belts are sitting there under tension. The teeth on them will break down over time and actually come off meaning slipped timing. As the guys have said valve timing is very critical and if it goes out far enough the valeves will come in contact with the pistons. This can result in bent valves or holes in the psitons.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby thrasherg » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:21 pm

MJSantos wrote:Have to agree with everyone 5yrs or 40-50 thousand miles. Even though they may look good rubder compunds breakdown and the cordage will to. The other problem is we have layup time in the northern countries and the belts are sitting there under tension. The teeth on them will break down over time and actually come off meaning slipped timing. As the guys have said valve timing is very critical and if it goes out far enough the valeves will come in contact with the pistons. This can result in bent valves or holes in the psitons.


It's not the holes in the piston that bother me, it the holes in my bank account to repair it that concern me!! :lol:

Gary

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby Tris » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:19 pm

Thanks everyone, you've confirmed what I had heard. My mechanic wants too much for labour, so I think I will attempt this on my own. Doesn't look all that difficult. Between the shop manual that I got with the bike and the on-line resoources I think we'll manage. Biggest problem, we have is no place to work on the bike. The condo doesn't allow us to work on vehicles in the underground. Understandable, and we comply, well most of the time. Have to see who will let us use their garage, once it warms up a bit.

cbx, I see you're in Edmonton, might be a bit of a drive as I'm in Toronto. Oh well.....

Tris
Last edited by Tris on Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
No point being pessimistic, wouldn't work anyway.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby imfree » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:00 am

Since you have never done this before after you get the new belts on with the marks all lined up rotate the engine by HAND two or three times very slowly and completly around to make sure nothing is contacting with anything, This job is not hard it is just time consuming,But you will be so proud of yourself knowing the money you saved and that it has been done.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby robb » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:51 am

My cousins have owned a Honda dealership for more than 40 years and he let me see a service bulletin a while back for the 88 model that stated 70-80 thousand miles, but less for colder or wet climates. When my 89 was new cars were suggested at 60k and bike belts were the same quality. A good quality belt today is rated at 120k miles which adds a little peace of mind. Cheap belts can be bought and 50k might be the safe bet, but local dealer says the new Gates, Goodyear and Hondaline belts will last a lifetime with a responsible rider.
One of the Men I ride with has a 84 Wings with 279k and a 89 3 wheel 180k+ all on the original belts. Three others have more than 100k. My 89 has 75k on stock belts, but I have a set of new ones on hand after all the talk here. Belts are like politics and should be changed as often as makes one feel good.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby cbx4evr » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:18 pm

robb wrote:local dealer says the new Gates, Goodyear and Hondaline belts will last a lifetime with a responsible rider.
One of the Men I ride with has a 84 Wings with 279k and a 89 3 wheel 180k+ all on the original belts. Three others have more than 100k. My 89 has 75k on stock belts, but I have a set of new ones on hand after all the talk here. Belts are like politics and should be changed as often as makes one feel good.



The price of belts and the time to change them doesn't warrant pushing a belt to its limit. Why take a chance with your engine for <$100??

As to what the dealers say I never trust them. They would be more than happy to sell you a new engine. All they tell you is verbal. They never give it to you in writing. Then there are the conditions like cold or wet as you mentioned. What is the definition of cold or wet?? Just another out for the dealer and in the end they will tell you that you should have changed it sooner.
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby MJSantos » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:29 pm

Check out Rock Auto, they have Gates T274s for $14.00 each.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby Tris » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:02 pm

Well, Honda wants $76 CDN for each belt. So, where do I get the Goodyear or Gates belts here in Canada.

The Gates part no. quoted (T275) is that the right number for an 89 GL15oo? Anyone know the part number for the Goodyear belt?

EDIT:
OK, found part no.s for four different manufacturers:
Honda: 14401-MN5-004
Gates: T275
NAPA: 250275
Goodyear: 40275

Now to figure out where I can get them in Toronto.
No point being pessimistic, wouldn't work anyway.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby MJSantos » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:57 pm

Tris wrote:Well, Honda wants $76 CDN for each belt. So, where do I get the Goodyear or Gates belts here in Canada.

The Gates part no. quoted (T275) is that the right number for an 89 GL15oo? Anyone know the part number for the Goodyear belt?

EDIT:
OK, found part no.s for four different manufacturers:
Honda: 14401-MN5-004
Gates: T275
NAPA: 250275
Goodyear: 40275

Now to figure out where I can get them in Toronto.


Did another search for the T275 at Rock Auto and they run $15.22 CDN here's the link:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... tab=search

If you have the time it might be worth it to check with them shippingg up to you.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby SAILOR » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:05 pm

I'm also in the market for some timing belts for my 84 Apsencade GL1200. Someone gave me these numbers for Gates and Napa belts. Does anyone have the Goodyear and Honda numbers and a recommended brand to buy or not buy?



GL1000/1100: Gates: T274 NAPA: 250274 Honda:???????? Goodyear:?????????
GL1200: Gates: T070 NAPA: 250070 Honda: ??????? Goodyear:?????????
GL1500: Gates: T275 NAPA: 250275 Honda: 14401-MN5-004 Goodyear:????????

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby robb » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:50 pm

As to what the dealers say I never trust them. They would be more than happy to sell you a new engine. All they tell you is verbal. They never give it to you in writing. Then there are the conditions like cold or wet as you mentioned. What is the definition of cold or wet?? Just another out for the dealer and in the end they will tell you that you should have changed it sooner.
cbx4evr


Some push preventative repair like it was healthcare. North Carolina has some good riding conditions with a minimal amount of harsh conditions. Friends who leave their bike outside in the elements all year spend much more time doing repairs than those kept inside. My cousins Honda dealer only had 2 belt breaks in his 40 years of service. No abuse, no breaks.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby Missourimike » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:50 pm

Just this past fall, changed belts on a buddy's GL with 63K on the odometer. I imagine they were the original belts, but what really surprised me was that as LOOSE as they were, one hadn't jumped a few notches in the pully. I wonder if a loose belt jumping time can also be the culprit in some motor lockups that end in destruction?

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby thrasherg » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:03 pm

imfree wrote:Since you have never done this before after you get the new belts on with the marks all lined up rotate the engine by HAND two or three times very slowly and completly around to make sure nothing is contacting with anything, This job is not hard it is just time consuming,But you will be so proud of yourself knowing the money you saved and that it has been done.


This is excellent advice even if you know what you are doing. Just one thing, remove the spark plugs first, it makes turning over the engine much easier.. :lol:

Gary

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby robb » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:56 pm

I wonder if a loose belt jumping time can also be the culprit in some motor lockups that end in destruction?


There can be up to 1/2" play in belt and be normal. It can jump 1 cog of belt and have a profound effect on performance, but let it jump 2 and it will probably shut down on its own. The real damage is when we know there is a problem but think it will make it home. There is no dishonor in trailering a bike home, just hurt pride.

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby heidebill » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:45 pm

Hey cbx4evr
if you still have those timing belts, I'm interested
I'm from Onoway
I want to do the belts in the next month or so
Bill

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby cbx4evr » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:18 pm

heidebill wrote:Hey cbx4evr
if you still have those timing belts, I'm interested
I'm from Onoway
I want to do the belts in the next month or so
Bill


I'm not selling any belts. Just purchased them to do the job in the springs or sooner. Just recovering from extensive surgery on my wrist. Hand is immobilized in a cast for 6 weeks after which I go for physio.
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby cbx4evr » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:24 pm

Tris wrote:Well, Honda wants $76 CDN for each belt. So, where do I get the Goodyear or Gates belts here in Canada.

The Gates part no. quoted (T275) is that the right number for an 89 GL15oo? Anyone know the part number for the Goodyear belt?

EDIT:
OK, found part no.s for four different manufacturers:
Honda: 14401-MN5-004
Gates: T275
NAPA: 250275
Goodyear: 40275

Now to figure out where I can get them in Toronto.




I got mine from Amazon.com for $18 each. Had them sent to a friend in the USA who then forwarded the package to me for another $7. So total cost was around $45 - FOR THE PAIR!! I would like to support my local dealer but 400% price difference is a little much.

http://www.amazon.com/Gates-T275-Timing ... 772&sr=8-1


.
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby heidebill » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:56 pm

I'm gathering parts to install, I want to do it now when we have 4' of snow out here
I am installing, Heated Grips, Switches on the master cyl cover
I want to do a heated seat mod for my wife, Timing Belts
Might try some hwy lights, Different Intercom system

It's a 97 gl 1500 se
We put about 13,000 km on last year
This year we are hoping for better weather
Amazon looks like a good vendor for belts.
I could not find a shipping price for Canada,
I'll call them, if I can find the phone #
Bill

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby cbx4evr » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:41 pm

heidebill wrote:I'm gathering parts to install, I want to do it now when we have 4' of snow out here

Amazon looks like a good vendor for belts.
I could not find a shipping price for Canada,
I'll call them, if I can find the phone #
Bill



Bill, I sent you a PM
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

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Re: Timing Belts, what's the scoop

Postby cbx4evr » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:43 pm

MJSantos wrote:Check out Rock Auto, they have Gates T274s for $14.00 each.



The belt price is great but then they turn around and charge $33 to ship them to Canada.

Postal shipping from Ohio only cost me $7.


"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "


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