Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-Present)
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gof
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Motorcycle: 2004 Titanium Gl1800 & 1984 Gold Wing Aspencade 1200

Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby gof » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:53 pm



So my recently purchased Goldwing gave me three scares tonight.

Took a nice long ride at night. When I pulled in for dinner, I noticed the kickstand kill switch had stopped working. After dinner on the way home three time, I lost everything. The first two times it seemed to come back on its own in a few seconds. The third time I switched the key to ACC and back and it seemed to kick back in.

This was all while driving at 40 mph or better, in the pitch dark and once on a hill. I have a weekend trip coming up within 10 days.

So, do I need this switch? Can I disable it? Should I replace it? Can I prove this caused the issue? Any ideas? I certainly don't want a feature that can cause this sever safety issue.



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WingAdmin
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Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:52 am

gof wrote:So my recently purchased Goldwing gave me three scares tonight.

Took a nice long ride at night. When I pulled in for dinner, I noticed the kickstand kill switch had stopped working. After dinner on the way home three time, I lost everything. The first two times it seemed to come back on its own in a few seconds. The third time I switched the key to ACC and back and it seemed to kick back in.

This was all while driving at 40 mph or better, in the pitch dark and once on a hill. I have a weekend trip coming up within 10 days.

So, do I need this switch? Can I disable it? Should I replace it? Can I prove this caused the issue? Any ideas? I certainly don't want a feature that can cause this sever safety issue.


Are you talking about your 1984 GL1200? I'm pretty sure the 1200 does not have a kickstand kill switch.

From what you're describing, it sounds like a problem with your ignition switch, possibly with worn contacts?

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gof
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Motorcycle: 2004 Titanium Gl1800 & 1984 Gold Wing Aspencade 1200

Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby gof » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:07 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
gof wrote:So my recently purchased Goldwing gave me three scares tonight.

Took a nice long ride at night. When I pulled in for dinner, I noticed the kickstand kill switch had stopped working. After dinner on the way home three time, I lost everything. The first two times it seemed to come back on its own in a few seconds. The third time I switched the key to ACC and back and it seemed to kick back in.

This was all while driving at 40 mph or better, in the pitch dark and once on a hill. I have a weekend trip coming up within 10 days.

So, do I need this switch? Can I disable it? Should I replace it? Can I prove this caused the issue? Any ideas? I certainly don't want a feature that can cause this sever safety issue.


Are you talking about your 1984 GL1200? I'm pretty sure the 1200 does not have a kickstand kill switch.

From what you're describing, it sounds like a problem with your ignition switch, possibly with worn contacts?

No this is the 2004 GL1800! Bummer. I think the kickstand switch works - I remembered now I was in neutral when it does not work. I can check tonight. So what can I check, should I play with the ignition key area and the kill switch on the bars with it running?

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Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby Dogsled » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:55 am

I know this happens on 1500's so try it on yours. When you start the bike and no lights come on, pull back on the starter button. While pushing in the starter, the light shut down for maximm starting power, when it sticks no lights come on. I hope you haven't tried this and it solves your problem. I sure motherHonda never fixed the issue. BTW, if it is the prob, become one of the many thousand Wing Switch sprayers/owners.

If it is not the problem, I hope some newer bike owners come up with your solution. Ride safe
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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gof
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Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby gof » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:41 pm

Dogsled wrote:I know this happens on 1500's so try it on yours. When you start the bike and
If it is not the problem, I hope some newer bike owners come up with your solution. Ride safe


Took it for a test tide today. The kickstand shut off works fine if in gear. I rocked the ignition key switch and the off switch and no issues at all exist. I did have the GPS on the bike and running for the first time. It was wired in by the previous owner. All 500+ miles before using the GPS were solid, no issues. I will try some more test rides this week with the GPS on.

I had the GPS on but had the audio wires hanging loose. perhaps this caused a short against the bars, unsure, grasping at straws at this point.

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gof
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Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby gof » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:43 pm

I replaced the lower half of the ignition switch and added a ground to the frame from the battery. I went on a three day trip and all was good until the last hour. This time during the daylight it shutoff twice within about 10 seconds for about 1 second and resumed as normal while setting the cruise.

This issue has been posted on other forums for 2001's and up quite a few times. It seems we have another bonafide Honda Goldwing issue and not just the 1800's. The dealers are at a loss and will not troubleshoot it from what I read. Most point to the ignition switch, but I already did that.

Ok, I began more troubleshooting tonight and need more advice.

I confirmed the kill switch and kickstand switch do not kill the lights.

I cannot swap the battery with my 1984 - 1200, different size.
This is a Yuasa battery which I believe is the AGM type - can those break from bouncing? Remember, the battery was loose in there.

I changed out the #2 30 amp fuse for the ignition.

I will change out the #8 10 amp fuse for the kill switch tomorrow.

I looked at the relay bars and glanced over the wire harness' going to the relays, seem ok.

I bounced the relay bars around quite a bit with the bike running, no issues there.

I swapped relays, the high beam and the F1 ignition.

I swapped relays the headlight adjuster and the ignition cruise relay.

I found a connection that was unplugged. It seemed to go to the passenger CB talk button I
think? I plugged it in, it may have been unplugged due to phone addons by previous owner.

The 3P connector going from the positive side of the battery to the reverse resistor looks a bit dirty and slightly corroded inside??? Hey Honda, nice place to put that right in the rear wheel well where its exposed to road debris, dirt and rain!

Could this have caused my issues? I am working my towards the ground block under the tank. Where is the other ground block? I see nothing under the right side cover.

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Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:28 am

gof wrote:I cannot swap the battery with my 1984 - 1200, different size.
This is a Yuasa battery which I believe is the AGM type - can those break from bouncing? Remember, the battery was loose in there.


They absolutely can. In fact, I know of a 1200 rider who found his bike intermittently dead after a few days of riding over bumpy roads. The battery had broken internally, and one of the plates would connect intermittently, causing his problem.

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gof
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Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby gof » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:47 am

WingAdmin wrote:
gof wrote:I cannot swap the battery with my 1984 - 1200, different size.
This is a Yuasa battery which I believe is the AGM type - can those break from bouncing? Remember, the battery was loose in there.


They absolutely can. In fact, I know of a 1200 rider who found his bike intermittently dead after a few days of riding over bumpy roads. The battery had broken internally, and one of the plates would connect intermittently, causing his problem.


Ok, I assume there is no way to test for that, but I will bump and bounce the battery a bit while its running. I think it certainly could cause the issue where it runs, fails for a moment lights and all and then runs again. The battery is dated July 2011 and it had a fair bit of play to bounce in the battery box. The 1800's do not ride like a dream either, the bumps are fast and harsh.

I have now checked the main fuses 70a and 100a for continuity, but will replace if they are easily found. They checked fine. The positive side may have a tiny amount of white film on the connection, I will clean that.

I also ran the bike while gently pulling and prodding all the wires going into the ECM and the same for the module that is on top of the ECM, no issues there at all.

I am trying to get at the bank angle sensor to see if that works and if that kills the lights or just the engine. Can anyone confirm 1000% that a bank angle sensor, under any condition, would not kill the entire bike, lights and all?

From there remove tank and check main ground block, still have heard rumor of another grounding block under the right side cover, which I cannot find! Anyone?

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gof
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Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby gof » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:38 am

Ok, I assume there is no way to test for that, but I will bump and bounce the battery a bit while its running. Can anyone confirm 1000% that a bank angle sensor, under any condition, would not kill the entire bike, lights and all?

From there remove tank and check main ground block, still have heard rumor of another grounding block under the right side cover, which I cannot find! Anyone?[/quote]

I was told the bank angle would never turn off the lights. Bounced the battery like a toy no issues there at all with the bike running.

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gof
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Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby gof » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:42 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
gof wrote:I cannot swap the battery with my 1984 - 1200, different size.
This is a Yuasa battery which I believe is the AGM type - can those break from bouncing? Remember, the battery was loose in there.


They absolutely can. In fact, I know of a 1200 rider who found his bike intermittently dead after a few days of riding over bumpy roads. The battery had broken internally, and one of the plates would connect intermittently, causing his problem.


The #2 ground connection was tight and clean. I took it off and wire brushed the mount and the cable end.

The #1 ground connector block is totally a pain to get to, what the %$&* Honda thinking? Not to mention, you really have to take off the starter cable too, to get at the grounds.

The #1 grounds were dirty outside, but clean and tight inside. No issues I could see. I still took off the connector and wire brushed everything and put it back together.

I put the tank back on and made sure the bike ran.

I am going to see about getting the 70 and 100 amp dog bone fuses now just to be complete.

I disconnected some lights the previous owner added above the cylinder covers.

Running out of options here. It's too bad it takes up to 1000 miles to reoccur.

Will button it up later and begin riding again.

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Re: Flying Blind! No lights, no power, no engine at night

Postby Red Ron » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:20 am

Has the ECM flashed a code to tell you what is wrong. The next time it happens you might be able to pull over and put it in nuteral with the engine off and ignition on and a code of short and long blinks may flash. The service manual decifers the code based on short and long blinks.




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